Truckload of Gunners normal??

[Mystical Panda]

The biggest problem I had playing with SS2 and Advanced Needs 76 was I needed to sleep so I could get rid of the no rest debuffs... So each day went... wake up, deal with gunner attack, loot bodies, get over-encumbered head back to Sanctuary, dump off loot... drink some nukas to perk up... try heading out in the wasteland... starting to get dusk... dumped more nukas... couldn't go any further without rest... head back... sleep, or drop and sack where I'm at. wake up... get messages... (repeat cycle).

I don't think I even reached the next town before I had to sleep... anywhere... and... (-under attack-) "KILL EM ALL!"... "GUNNERS!"... "DON'T YOU DIE ON ME!!!"

 

[Mystical Panda]

How about this as an idea... instead of a constant gunner attack, let's say every 24 in-game hours, they attack in force multiple settlements at once, or within minutes of each other. So while your defending one, you get another notice. Then after all are dealt with, they take a few days to regroup and have at it again? Something like...you attacked us, now we're making our move in force.

 

[yaugie]

Its already MEANT to be only one attack per 24 hours. The way people are describing it though, it isnt for everyone...

 

[maverikch]

Its already MEANT to be only one attack per 24 hours. The way people are describing it though, it isnt for everyone...

To be clear, the frequency of the attacks are not my cocern. only the amout of attackers.
didn't count the ingame hours but i think they do pop up every 24h and 5 attacks max.
but every single attack has 50+ opponents.

maybe a screenshot of one of the first attacks for messurements. but i think you got the picture

Mystical Panda:​

How about this as an idea... instead of a constant gunner attack, let's say every 24 in-game hours, they attack in force multiple settlements at once, or within minutes of each other. So while your defending one, you get another notice. Then after all are dealt with, they take a few days to regroup and have at it again? Something like...you attacked us, now we're making our move in force.

Uff, no thanks Or make it optional. where one can configure that, if possible.

 

[Mystical Panda]

Are you running a mod that 'amplifies' npc count? Like PaNPC? or something similar that will replicate spawned actors?

Uff, no thanks Or make it optional. where one can configure that, if possible.

An optional Gunners last stand.

 

[Antoine Soverie]

Are you running a mod that 'amplifies' npc count? Like PaNPC? or something similar that will replicate spawned actors?

I personally don't and they still get spawned in crazy numbers. See the screenshot in "TIL" with the Egret building stacked to the 2nd floor with their corpses. Also have a vid where it took me like 5 minutes just to loot. A couple streets outside the castle were drenched in blood and littered with bodies. A nice 8K xp from throwing a couple grenades too...
Could it be linked to game FPS, perhaps? Mine drops really really low so the game is having a hard time dealing with all of it. Maybe it sees no result from spawning them and spawns more? Just wondering if that could be a thing.

 

[Mystical Panda]

I personally don't and they still get spawned in crazy numbers. See the screenshot in "TIL" with the Egret building stacked to the 2nd floor with their corpses. Also have a vid where it took me like 5 minutes just to loot. A couple streets outside the castle were drenched in blood and littered with bodies. A nice 8K xp from throwing a couple grenades too...
Could it be linked to game FPS, perhaps? Mine drops really really low so the game is having a hard time dealing with all of it. Maybe it sees no result from spawning them and spawns more? Just wondering if that could be a thing.

Yeah, that is strange- and could be. I wonder if the script could also be getting 'out of sync' timewise, and thinks it needs to keep dumping them in thinking 24 in game hours have passed and it hasn't. That would be a bug in the time->event script call. In many of my Fallout 4 playthroughs, with what starts out as a normal in game time spawn rate, begins to slowly increase in frequency across the board until it almost becomes spam outside of SS2. Almost as if the game thinks more time has passed than has.

I would guess the reason the frame rates are initially dropping is... the game engine creating and linking data structures for npcs, in this case the Gunners, in massive quantities. That is sometimes the 1-2 second pause you'll see when entering a new area that seems to be crawling with enemies. Then after that framerates fall under gpu and cpu limitations or bandwidth. How much data can be moved in a given amount of time. The gpu can move it, but if it can't do it fast enough between frames everything starts to seem 'laggy'.

I've noticed, at least in my gaming here, that when things get 'laggy' due to bandwidth issues, the overall quality of the visuals appear to drop. It's very subtle. I don't mean being 'laggy' per se, just how it looks. If that is true, then the engine is saying... I don't have enough time to do some simple aesthetic things so I'm going to skip it for now(by frame). Not, necessarily by a 'dynamic' design... just can't keep the core engine stable if we do more than we should during a certain time slice so let's code in a fail safe by saying if we don't have enough time to do... let's just skip it. So, if it happens intermittently, let's say one or two frames out of 60 per second, then no one would really notice. But if the problem is big enough and more frames are involved then it becomes noticeable.

For me, when they did a FedEx overnight every 24 in game hours there wasn't more than 4 or 5(at the most), and I'm running PaNPC which is set to increase spawns. So if it did, it was just by one or two. The fights were brief and the settlers usually took them out as they weren't heavily armed. In that image, they look like clones of the same npc for some reason.

 

[maverikch]

Are you running a mod that 'amplifies' npc count? Like PaNPC? or something similar that will replicate spawned actors?

not specifically. there is only one mod that i can think of:
Nuka World Plus - the mod author there has added "Defend Nuka Town USA" Quests where the nuka town raiders factions will attack. not gunners. The attack patern have 3 waves with an assault leader and 15-20 npcs per attack. when i get the attack leaders or lose the defend leaders of my chosen faction. the waves stop.

but it has no effect on vanilla "Defend {Settlement XY}" Quest with other factions attacking like Supermutants, etc.

not sure if the chapter two defend gunner attack are just the vanilla ones took (if settlement has asam sensor start defend quest with gunners) or they are modified, becaue specifing the gunners would not possible.

disabled it and it had no effect on the npc amount with the gunner settlement attack quests.
i even waitet for new quests to be injected. enabled it again.

there is somthing i'm not certain about:
when the Defend Quest are set, are the amount of NPCs already set or will they be set upon arrival when they spawn?

well anyway i also have postet on the comments of the nuka world plus mod.

 

[Mystical Panda]

when the Defend Quest are set, are the amount of NPCs already set or will they be set upon arrival when they spawn?

That's a good question and I'm not sure to be honest. I would imagine they'd get 'dropped' when the attack actually begins, not when they're at the settlement actually attacking or heading that way, but when the quest decides that now is the time for the attack, then calculates and dumps them from a leveled list in the game. It's from that point, when they're in the game engines list of thing's to manage, they, using a 'target' of sorts moves towards the settlement(or directly spawning in it) and go hostile, using enemy ai routines, when they encounter the settlers(or anything) who are not in their faction or are set to faction hostile(to them).

 

[Mystical Panda]

Have you used xEdit to check for 'circular leveled lists'? Another possibility is the engine is bouncing between plugin leveled lists and a bashed patch one.

 

[maverikch]

Have you used xEdit to check for 'circular leveled lists'? Another possibility is the engine is bouncing between plugin leveled lists and a bashed patch one.

Downloaded the xEdit FO4 4.0.4.
Loaded SS2Chapter2 and NukaWorldPlus
Went to Context Menu in the Tree Section and checked for "CircularLeveled Lists" on both ESP.

It starts with the big "Cancel" button and then disapears. but nothing happens resp. no information is displayed about such lists.

From the help site the mods seems clean of it:

"If you don't get any output from running this function, then the checked mod is clean of such loops."
- https://tes5edit.github.io/docs/7-m...checking.html#CheckingforCircularLeveledLists

 

[Mystical Panda]

Downloaded the xEdit FO4 4.0.4.
Loaded SS2Chapter2 and NukaWorldPlus
Went to Context Menu in the Tree Section and checked for "CircularLeveled Lists" on both ESP.

It starts with the big "Cancel" button and then disapears. but nothing happens resp. no information is displayed about such lists.

From the help site the mods seems clean of it:

Not sure if it's the correct procedure, but when I check for circular leveled lists I include all plugins in my load order(active only), including any merge or bashed patches- this way it checks the synergy between all the plugins that could potentially effect my current game.

 

[Hangdog]

I am level 115 and they are spawning 25+, with 2-4 Legendary, 5-6 Brigadiers, etc.
Even with a 2-shot gauss rifle I mostly get Defense Failed as soon as I arrive, and I pretty much have to draw them all away and thin them out using stealth for the bonus, and natural obstacles like rivers, etc.

 

[smacneill]

Wow, 20+?! I'm finding the same scenario but not the kind of numbers some of you are seeing! Usually 12-14, several high level officers - playing with Horizon they're plenty tough enough for me!!

How many attackers are there meant to be? While defending Nordhagen I took out 6 or 7 and began walking in to loot only to spot another squad of 7 spawning on the beach. Are reinforcements expected?

I enjoy the battles, but the frequency does get a little wearing, especially with Horizon constraints on ammo and half my settler population coping with diseases with unknown cures, lol!

 

[yaugie]

I'll probably be able to get up to there again today or tomorrow (assuming I can keep focus for long enough) so I'll see how the numbers look for me on my 'real' load order.

 

[Antoine Soverie]

Playing on PC, first few attacks were more or less "normal" and my settlers mopped the floor with them. I was disappointed, first time doing this without crashes every 2 seconds and they don't even pose a threat. The more it goes though, the more carnage they bring. I swear, they show up in bigger numbers with every attack. Should've used a mod to spawn them outside the settlement so my carefully crafted fences and walls actually mean something. It's tempting just to never leave this loop of never ending war but HQ ain't gonna take itself.

 

[littlewillow]

Enough people have claimed the attacks are coming too fast and spawning too many dudes that I am going to go through that sequence again and see if it is still working as intended.
(a fair amount of said complaints seem to be over exaggerating due to thinking ANY attacks are too many)

Was playing this evening and had one pop up, there had to have been 30 .. all smooshed up in RedRocket's garage .. can't grenade them otherwise all my settlers go hostile from damage. I finally got em all down .. left .. only to have it and 2 others pop right back up!

 

[yaugie]

Was playing this evening and had one pop up, there had to have been 30 .. all smooshed up in RedRocket's garage .. can't grenade them otherwise all my settlers go hostile from damage. I finally got em all down .. left .. only to have it and 2 others pop right back up!

Since making that post I've done another playthrough of that part myself, and I did not notice anything unexpected from either the quantity or frequency of the attacks - always 10-20 of them, and only ever 24ish ingame hours apart.
My theory that it's some kind of "mod conflict" still stands, although I'll be damned if I can work out which mod. (I'm positive it's not SKK's things)

 

[Antoine Soverie]

Can someone without those issues try and overbuild a settlement (600-800%+), then get an attack there - for science? A city contest plan at level 3, 20+ settlers and all that. I swear it's related and it's not a mod conflict. FPS massively drops and because of that scripts can't run properly. So whatever script is meant to spawn gunners just injects a shit ton of them. When there's a lot of them, the game is slow to count survivors ("kill remaining attackers" might not show up at all until completing the quest) or get wounded settlers up as well. That's just my theory so could be wrong but I think it has some base under it. So If I'm right, weaker systems or script heavy games will most definitely run into this issue. And those that don't, would still run into it in some circumstances.

 

[maverikch]

had to start a new playthrough due to save file size limitations. my savefile was 120+ MB and my gameplay froze out of nowhere - even in small cells with nothing going on.

the issue here did not reappear: i now got gunner attack size from 12-14 npc's.

so whtat did i do different?

• didn't place a city planners desk and startet the basic settlement plan on every settlement i claimed.
• the settlements with existing npc's i just setup vanilla style. placed turrets so the Mod This Settlement Does Not Need Your Help - BS Defence Redone kicks in and left the other settlements empty.
• waited until somwhere between level 20-30 (i am at level 43 now) until i placed a recruitement beacon for SS2 to kick in.
• placed a beacon in the castle not sanctuary (yes, poor jake had to run the whole way from concord to castle and back)
• sent the npc group (that would trigger a city planners desk) to croup manor and deactivated the recruitment signal.
• and i removed following two mods before starting anew: Cleaner Lived-In Settlements and Immersive Scrapping - Tidy up
  (not sure if these Settlement Mods have an impact on the Random Settlement Attack Size, because only Gunners were an issue. the other faction random settlement attacks were not affected.)

the rest of my mod load order is status quo

i still also need to go to NW and check if the atttack Issue with the Mod Nuka World Plus on the other hand is "solved" as well - because my last thought was that SS2 CH2 and NWP would conflict.

will update here when i proceed and set up all my settlements with a city plan.

---

Update 1
so i am at level 44 and still got the following settlements with basic city plans:

• the castle
• croup manor

and following settlements with vanilla turrets so the "help defend settlement xy" manages itself (attack notifications not defend quests):

• tempines bluff
• greentop nursery
• norhagen beach
• oberland station
• sommerville place
• sanctuary
• warwick homestead
• country crossing
• abernathy farm

the rest is claimed but empty or not claimed yet.

for some reason the defend settlment xy quests from SS2 focus on the castle and croup manor.
the first two quests do take these settlements.

the third one is oberland station.

now to my new issue:
got three time oberland station in a row (did popup every 24h ingame hours as intended though). when arriving they do all occure at the same time so i got the 3x 12-14 npc's attacking at once.