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Researching Still CTD with 3.2.1

Turalyon

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Has the crash bug been fixed? My game still crashes when I walk around Sanctuary, even though I deactivated automatic city upgrades.

Would it help if I upload my savegame or would a completely new game start be better?
What is causing these crashes anyway? Could it be armor and weapon workbenches I built by myself?
 

kinggath

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There is no longer any crash bug. Remaining crashes are almost always caused by too much stuff in the settlements, though it's an arbitrary amount - each player's system can handle a different amount. They can also be caused by the AI getting stuck or corrupt cells in your save file. If it's the AI, then running the console command tai before you enter should prevent the crash.
 

woodfuzzy

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To expand on KG's post.. cause he types faster! LOL
A lot of the crashing is due to the CP overloading the system the game is running on. It's really kool looking for sure, but is a horrible design as far as the game engine is concerned.
Add crappy AI navigation to that and things go south real quick.
One thing you can try is to toggle the AI off before even getting close to Sanctuary.
tai
will toggle the AI off & on.
That will relieve a pretty good sized load on the system.
Then "walk" into Sanctuary looking for any stuttering. As soon as you notice a stutter.. stop, look at the ground and wait 15 to 30 seconds. Keep doing that until you're at the workshop workbench.
At that point the entire settlement should be fully loaded.

Now, go into the Tools>Configuration Tools>Performance Wizard and set it to Low
Find the CP desk and run the Refresh City Plan.
Once it's done, head to an interior cell that has no NPC's, like the Boylston Club (coc BostonCommon02) and let the game run for 10 or so minutes. Go have your preferred beverage.
This will allow any script lag to catch up and clear out.
Save the game and check the new save with Fallrim Tools looking for the number of "Active Scripts".
0 to 2 is great. If it's really high, you can try cleaning the unattached instances.
 
A

Ain't Much

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Been playing on this character for over 2 days total without crashing, but after the update to 3.2.1, I have had two crashes to desktop. I was approaching County Crossing to start their Minuteman quest (which I attributed to that long-standing problem with County Crossing). After getting back into the game, I did their quest but didn't fire off the city plan. I then wandered to the Finch Farm, did their first quest. Fired off the city plan, met with the 1st settler, crash.

Of course, that doesn't mean 3.2.1 is some part of that, but it happened in that order.
 

Cranky Cat

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My CTDs are worse with 3.2.1. The previous version was stable for me and now I seem to get CTDs when I exit dialogs or workbenches. So, exiting the armor workbench, closing a file cabinet, and exiting the shower (from CWSS). I decided to just go in a bathroom and close the door let the game sit and process and got a CTD on the idle spin. I turned the multi-threaded down from 20 to 4 and then 2. I'll try turning down all of the settings. A save before the idle showed 70+ active threads mostly SimSettlements so it's definitely busy. This is in Sanctuary or Red Rocket so maybe it's doubling up?
 

woodfuzzy

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@Cranky Cat If you have both Sanctuary & Red Rocket city plans running, then yes you're getting hammered by both and script lag is a given.
When trying to clear the lag, you need to be in an interior cell that has no NPC's. Home Plate will work too.
Even though the game isn't "rendering" the NPC's, it's still calculating their position as time goes by.
A small interior cell, like Home Plate, has very little to process and thus frees up a LOT of processing time that the waiting scripts can use.

Oh, opening the Pipboy Radio, no station playing, will stop all idle animation. ie: banging on the pipboy, idle spin...
 

Cranky Cat

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I'm only using the plan for Red Rocket. I kept my pre-RotC Sanctuary. I went back to a save before I tried to visit either of those settlements and set my performance values to potato; all the bells and whistles off. I went to the club via fast travel saved and see 5 active scripts with 2 for SS which is normal.

Even without visiting Red Rocket or Sanctuary yet post 3.2.1, after going back to an earlier save, I'm currently trying the interior cell bit, passing time by tidying up the Boy's club. :)

However, nothing seemed to happen. After going outside and walking to a nearby subway station I saved before entering and CTD'd when I tried to enter; not even in a settlement. When I looked at the last save SS had apparently spawned 50+ scripts when I changed cells. I have noticed CTDs when entering or exiting interiors when I didn't get those before unless it was only rarely.

I recall the notes mentioning using threads for more cell change related scripts to perhaps that has something to do with it.

I wonder what kicks off the actual updates to performance settings being applied. I see the "this can take several minutes" but not the "completed" message although that can be hard to miss unless you go into idle mode and watch the queued messages.

I'm thinking I should set those performance values to their lowest values prior to updating Sim Settlements in the future and letting things settle down before entering a settlement. I'm just not sure what kicks off the tasks now though after seeing active scripts pop up while no where near a settlement.
 

Cranky Cat

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Actually, most of the active scripts say TERMINATED.
If I wait in the interior cell the scripts go back to the original 5 active. Then I go outside and I get 90 scripts again. The autosave on entering the exterior cell has like 20 but then I save a minute later and there are 90 mostly TERMINATED. If I try entering Park Station, for example, I get a CTD every time with those active scripts.
 

woodfuzzy

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From what I understand, KG missed a file, Town Meeting Gavel during the compile stage. Wonder if there was more than that?
Whatever is, it wasn't in the last beta before going live.
Haven't had a chance to run the live version. Outa one beta into another.. the mans a slave driver! LOL
 

Cranky Cat

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I can't get past this and my backup software invalidated my backups so I can't go back to a save before 3.2.1. I'm done until the next update and I'll try again. This just isn't fun anymore.
 

kinggath

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I’m not sure I understand the scripts popping up you’re referring to. Sim Settlements will currently create a max of 10 threads when changing cells, and if the cell isn’t a workshop, each will only last a few milliseconds. Any Terminated threads you see are there permanently, and are from using the terminate thread option in Fallrim Tools- once a thread is terminated, it essentially doesn’t exist anymore.


If you ignore terminated scripts, how many actual active scripts are you finding?


@woodfuzzy I definitely didn’t miss any files. If the IBB isn’t working, I just miscalculated what the issue with it was when I added it to the patch notes. Generally when I’ve forgotten scripts, it’s on new holotape submenus or new item types because those scripts are stored in a separate directory- in this update, there are no new scripts so they would get packaged automatically when I go through my normal process.
 

Cranky Cat

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@kinggath The terminated scripts aren't there in the save before I leave the interior cell and are there partially in the immediate autosave on entering the new cell (~20 of them) and if I wait a few seconds and save then that save has about 90 terminated scripts. If I wait long enough without going anywhere then the terminated threads are gone and I see about 20 instances of SimSettlements: AddOnScript. This isn't near a settlement, just Boston. If I try to move outside I get a CTD probably when I try to leave the cell. If I wait long enough outside I get a CTD anyway.

Other than the TERMINATED threads I see a couple of other mod's scripts which are always there and kghelpers: optionsmanagerscript.

I tried changing the multithreading to 4, originally, then 1, then 20, and then back to auto.

Edit: Maybe my OnCellLoad stack is simply too large and the last update put it over the top?
 
Last edited:

kinggath

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Try running coc tenpinesbluffext (I think that’s a valid cell name- if not try oberlandstationext or sanctuaryhillsext)

If that loads correctly, see if you can walk outside of that settlement without crashing.


RE: Terminated scripts - I’m not positive how the game handles them, but they are essentially irrelevant. The only ones to worry about are the non-terminated ones. If you’re seeing a massive spike in non-terminated, it can be a problem, otherwise, it’s just an arbitrary detail unrelated to your crashing.
 

Cranky Cat

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I found a bug with Bilago's Fallout 4 Launcher's config settings. If I change Papyrus fUpdateBudgetMS is actually changes it in the DeferredDeleter section so when I updated it the setting had actually reset to the default 1.2. That might be why I was getting the TERMINATED so many times.

I tried the same test after fixing the Paprus settings and got a boatload of active scripts instantly instead of the TERMINATE script on exiting the interior cell; mostly non-SS related vanilla scriptsm EMSystemTurfScript, and other things I'd expect with cell loads for standard Fallout and various mods I have. This time I waited until there definitely were no pending performance setting changes in progress as well though.

There are just 9 active scripts a few seconds later including two instances of kghelpers:threadrunner as well as one each of simsettlements:simparentscript and kghelpers:optionsmanagerscript. Just one TERMINATED. I still can't avoid CTDs in Sanctuary or Red Rocket. RR just updated to city level 3 while I was away from it so that's a new change. Sanctuary has no plan.

I was able to go into both settlements in 3.2 but that was before the level 3 was built in Red Rocket. Unfortunately, due to the abovementioned backup (Acronis) update my backups were invalidated and I have none from before now.

I set the options to the minimal settings for clutter, high quality objects, animations, etc. and have visitors disabled but I'm not sure if those are actually applied before I visit and refresh everything. I don't know that 3.2 became stable until I actually went to the biggest settlements and did a "Refresh All" and waited for it to complete. Then I put the settings back to max and it was working so that was probably a mistake.

I turned on logging and get an abundance of these:

[04/22/2018 - 02:33:29PM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp961"
stack:
[ (FF073995)].autobuilder:autobuildplot.UpdateSpawnedObjects() - "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\Source\User\AutoBuilder\AutoBuildPlot.psc" Line 2823
[ (FF073995)].simsettlements:simplot.UpdateSpawnedObjects() - "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\Source\User\SimSettlements\SimPlot.psc" Line 676
[kgSIM_OptionsManager (070044E6)].kghelpers:optionsmanagerscript.UpdateAllSpawnedObjects() - "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\Source\User\KGHelpers\OptionsManagerScript.psc" Line 922
[kgSIM_OptionsManager (070044E6)].kghelpers:optionsmanagerscript.HandleOptionsChanges() - "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\Source\User\KGHelpers\OptionsManagerScript.psc" Line 278

<truncated stack>
 

kinggath

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After changing performance options, SS will attempt to update all plots immediately, but it’s not always able to- hence the log spam. The City Plans do require that you refresh them for the performance options to update.

Red Rocket is a fairly tame build, so I wouldn’t expect it to crash anyone. Can you get close enough to it to try the remote destruction?
 

Cranky Cat

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I can actually get to the gate but crash when I open it. I'll try the destruct although I'd hate to start over. I can see the game still constantly creating plots in the AutoBuilderLog as fast as it can manage so it's still doing something it hasn't finished with yet. Maybe I can do a city refresh right next to the gate since I'm inside more or less.

On the other CTD issue I think there might be a vanilla bug since I get a crash entering Park Street Station only after the Valentine quest begins. I can enter it before but get a CTD after. I see other people with the same issue but no idea why.

Edit: Also, I can walk around the exteriors and see the settlements ok it's just when I get inside the border that I get the CTDs generally when I interact with anything but often if I just wait although I can try the radio-tab to avoid the idle spin maybe.
 

Cranky Cat

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I was able to remotely destroy Red Rocket. I was able to get to Sanctuary and start a refresh plots, staying on the Pip Boy's radio tab, but about 90% of the way through I got a CTD. I'm beyond tired of messing with it at this point.
 

kinggath

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Definitely sounds like you’ll need to use the build limit on your game (or limit to just an increase or two). Bummer you’ve had to go through crashing hell. It’s a shame how dramatically different the game works for each person, near regardless of system power.
 

Cranky Cat

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Yeah, my system is as powerful as any are likely to be; all liquid cooled. The GPUs aren't maxed out generally no matter what but I did try turning down the graphics to Potato with no effect. Also, I get CTDs even walking around Red Rocket which has been stripped bare. I still see lots of constant "Adding plot to construction queue" so maybe I need to leave the settings alone and sit in an interior cell for a long time until they appear to finish.

Also, upon clearing the settlement I found several remaining objects which were up to 8 duplicates in the same spot. So one plot had 8 duplicates of 4 lamps with a curtain rod, plus plants and vines. So, 32 extra copies of lamps. That's alot of extra objects! Another had lots of idle markers, cabinets, etc. So, this might be part of the issue if objects are not deleted on a refresh but are re-created and therefore duplicated every time. Every time I do a plot refresh it just gets worse when this happens. I'll need to test to see if it's always the same plots though.
 
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