Finally giving up on SS.

Discussion in 'SS General Forum (Chat Here)' started by chrizeren, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. chrizeren

    chrizeren New Member

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    First of all, i just want to say that this is not a rant against the mod, or the authors. They've made a truly amazing mod. I've just never been able to get to run smoothly, even after following every possible advise, tricks/tips, heresay, etc.

    As the title says, i'm giving up on the entire mod (and the steaming pile of cr*p that is Fallout 4 in general). Only reason i came back to Fallout 4 was because of this awesome mod. But with every update it just seems to crash my game more and more. Now i can't even build up sancturay with the Rotc plan on a fresh game. It builds up, recalculates build limit, waits a minute, then the game crashes to desktop.
     
  2. VersusXV

    VersusXV Well-Known Member Staff Member Patreon Supporter Vault Librarian Verified Builder

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    I would wonder what your Load Order and PC specs are? Problematic mods and load order issues such as unresolved Mod conflicts can cause instability. Another reason is if PC hardware is too weak, instability will happen if the PC is already struggling to run the vanilla game before mods are installed. This could happen if your specs are below the Recommended Specs(Linked here) for the game or if you are playing at high resolutions like 1440p or 2160p(4K) without a sufficiently powerful PC though 4K is demanding enough & exacerbating the engine issues that there will always be some instability on 4K unless lowering settings. ENB is really demanding too so you may want to exclude an ENB Preset or choose a performance friendly one.

    If PC Specs are too low end/outdated I have a WIP guide on PC hardware here: https://simsettlements.com/site/ind...equirements-recommendations.10890/#post-75108

    For starters on a typical modded game generally you will want to have 6GB or 8GB VRAM to not be overly limited. 16GB of System RAM or more so that there can be easily enough after Windows eats up some. I had 8GB system RAM in the past and I found that any time the game has to write to pagefile things get a lot more unstable. Since pagefile is really slow in terms of read/write I would guess that there's probably a "timeout" in the game code, like if it waits too long the game EXE would get aborted in case it's stuck on an unrecoverable error(it probably kicks in for cases where BGS would assume it's an indefinite freeze). I've had best stability when having ample amounts of RAM/VRAM and a hardware/game settings combination that is easily able to maintain 60fps. When I get crashes that are not directly attributable to a mod or mod conflict or save related issue it's generally always when FPS is fluctuating. If PC is just too low end/outdated and decent upgrades(or decent new PC if needed) are not affordable another option could be going Xbox One X, I've heard from some people it's working pretty well for them. For PC 1080p is generally reasonably affordable to target, or could try going to 720p/lowered settings on current specs.

    On both fronts things can be improved by using:

    Even on a good load order and good PC, save corruption can sometimes happen. Most common reason will be uninstalling mods from a playthrough without rolling back to a save from before they were installed. Best resource here by @RayBo for Save related stuff: https://simsettlements.com/site/index.php?threads/baking-a-game-save-bags.9447/

    This whole thread by Whisper is fantastic! https://www.simsettlements.com/site...-and-plugins-an-exploration.11318/#post-78133

    Great new games are pretty scarce in 2019 at least IMO so I strongly suggest trying to resolve the issues and getting to be able to play Sim Settlements. All I play nowadays are this and Nintendo games plus the odd Indie game.
     
  3. RobotsSmell

    RobotsSmell RS Buildings Staff Member Verified Builder

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    I can where your coming from. In a way. Surprised at the issue with a fresh game, but, I get it. I had an issue with a corrupt save and couldn't test anything without a CTD. Couldn't understand WTF was happening etc and nearly threw the towel in myself. But after a new game etc etc, all was well. (Mainly). My PC is a hunk of scrap bolts and metal, and I think I'm lucky in the fact that it does actually run FO4. I cannot offer any further words of advise other that endorse what @VersusXV has said. Might be worth one more try????
     
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  4. VersusXV

    VersusXV Well-Known Member Staff Member Patreon Supporter Vault Librarian Verified Builder

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    Absolutely worth a try. The following is a bit off topic but I hoped to convey that the grass isn't always greener and in fact this is my general thought process if things in modding feels frustrating.

    Especially nowadays it's worth it since I try to get as much money's worth out of every game purchase. I'm typically not happy with a game purchase unless I'm getting at least 100 to 200 or more enjoyable hours or a steep discount. Modding is a great way to fill the time between good releases. There are always new skills to learn. It is a better, deeper and more fulfilling progression than any MMO.

    Pretty much gaming for me is Fallout 4 Modding, Creation Kit/xEdit to make mods related to Sim Settlements, Skyrim SE Modding, The Witcher 3, soon also Kingdom Come Deliverance modding, Nintendo Switch for great stuff like Smash Bros Ultimate, Zelda BotW, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Dragon Quest XI S and the occasional indie game(I am looking to try out Stardew Valley sometime) or older game.

    I find that there are only maybe 10 interesting new games scheduled for release in a typical given year and not everything will live up to the hype so with few exceptions I will wait till well after the fact(6 months or a year after the release date, longer than that if it's a Live Service game) so I get complete information free of the hype cycle + honeymoon phase when a game is newly released, seeing how the post launch support/DLC content/MTX will go. As much as possible I try to get all the facts about a game before potentially buying anything and as much as possible I try to completely avoid the marketing. There are often extra costs beyond the initial game purchase so for me the first fact to seek out is "How much is the total cost?". There is no other way for me than asking the hard questions and then seeking out (to the fullest extent possible) factual answers. Since with other games we typically do not have individualized control over the experience, typically it will just be "as-is".
     
  5. stjohnmccloskey

    stjohnmccloskey Member

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    The other thing to consider if you love the mod but hate the bugginess is just to skip the triangle of death. Don't do a city plan in any of the three settlements. I've *only* suffered CTDs in the city-plan sanctuary.

    I've done a handful of other city plans on a PC that's truly not stellar and it's worked fine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  6. VersusXV

    VersusXV Well-Known Member Staff Member Patreon Supporter Vault Librarian Verified Builder

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    The big thing with Fallout 4 modding is it's ever evolving, people can learn skills and help out.

    True. Even on 2080 ti & i7 PC I could at times get frequent crashes if I build or pre-build city plan at the Triangle of Death(Post Linked Here: https://www.simsettlements.com/site...sanctuary-abernathy-farm-and-red-rocket.6964/).

    Recent saves are so much better and all I do differently is choose to skip Abernathy, Red Rocket, Jamaica Plains, Starlight Drive in(I usually build manually at Starlight) out of the defaults.

    Keep in mind too that Compacted City Plans were made for Rise of The Commonwealth's City Plans so that helps things considerably. SCOLs are a lot more efficient for the game's renderer and by they also reduce the required script load by nature of there being fewer distinct references that have to be handled by the scripts. Fewer big pieces rather than all little pieces for everything, quantity matters both for the sake of script data usage and because of the way the rendering tech works.
     
  7. VersusXV

    VersusXV Well-Known Member Staff Member Patreon Supporter Vault Librarian Verified Builder

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    As an update I just wanted to point out that City Plan Contest Entries have now also undergone the compacting process:
    @chrizeren if you were experiencing crashes at City Plan Contest Entries this will likely be a significant help. I know the OP said RotC Sanctuary but is still a possible factor if Abernathy Farm & Red Rocket were also running city plans either manually started or prebuilt, especially if both and if before the compacting is in effect.
     
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  8. chrizeren

    chrizeren New Member

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    @VersusXV Hi, and sorry for the late reply, but i've been out of town.

    My pc is getting a few years old now, but from what i can gather, the specs are 32GB RAM, i7-6700 CPU @ 3,40 GHz, and a GeForce GTX 1070 graphics card.

    Just tell me if i missed any crucial info.

    I don't think it is the hardware that is the problem. I do have the scrap everything mod isntalled, but it seems like i have the same problems with, or without that particular mod installed. I also have most of the "non-dead" sim settlement add-on mods.

    I'm very aware of the the triangle of death, and i expect to get a crash now and then when they're all built up. After my last post i started yet ANOTHER fresh game, just to test if sanctuary was the problem, but it turns out any settlement i try out, it ctd's right after it recalculates build limit.

    So i'm at a loss :(

    I will definitly read through the links you sent in your post. Maybe i have just missed something.
     
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  9. RayBo

    RayBo Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter Community Rockstar Support Team Vault Librarian

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    @chrizeren I understand. Your hardware is more than fine.

    Still, I want to help but be clear. No matter what you might think, no matter if I convince you or not, my advice is simple:

    Start a new game with nothing other than SS and city plans.
    in the same vein remove the scrap everything mod completely before restarting.
    I don't think a real last-ditch troubleshooting attempt can be rationalized with it installed.

    :bye
     
  10. stjohnmccloskey

    stjohnmccloskey Member

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    Yep your computer kicks the crap out of mine. I built the city-plan in abernathy AND sanctuary, and it chugs along at a very low FPS, but no CTD. Which makes me think it must be a mod conflict, but who knows?

    The other thing to try might be to use a savegame that has the cities prebuilt. @MrCJohn has made a great little collection to make sure that they're up and running for people having trouble. https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/38520

    Do you have the problem without the city plans? if you just build plots and such in the settlements yourself?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  11. chrizeren

    chrizeren New Member

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    Well, i tried the uninstalling scrap everything.
    Now the settlements build up fine, but i've (of course) run into something completely new. Random plots gets placed down through walls, etc when i use a city plan. To make it even better, i cant demolish these random plots either, except by disabling them in the console (but i'm guessing that will fuck things up even more later down the line). I'll add a picture.

    @stjohnmccloskey No, i dont have any problems just building on my own. But i'm so void of imagination when it comes to settlement building :P.

    Here's are the magic plots i mentioned: wonky sanctuary.jpg
     
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  12. VersusXV

    VersusXV Well-Known Member Staff Member Patreon Supporter Vault Librarian Verified Builder

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    It's likely that issues will be permanent on the save game after removal from the ongoing save game so I would suggest to create a new game beginning with a load order that does not include Scrap Everything and does not include any of the respective INI edits that may be included with SE depending on choices made in the FOMOD installer. Especially when new it's advisable to begin a fresh new game when dropping mods from your load order and never continue a save after having remove mods. Scripts from removed mods will often remain to continuously run in perpetuity, causing crashes.

    I also suspect that if the setting bUsePreCreatedSCOL=0(I believe there are options on Scrap Everything's FOMOD installer to include this setting in the Scrap Everything INI, which will override your own INI settings) was used that it will break plot functionality, as plots are usually making frequent use of SCOLs. Disabling the SCOL system entirely is not something that Sim Settlements can reasonably account for, so it's possible that existing plots created while this setting was in effect may be bugged out. It's unlikely that any way exists for Sim Settlements to account for systems it is reliant upon being globally disabled.
     
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  13. chrizeren

    chrizeren New Member

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    I forgot to mention it in my earlier post, but this was a new/fresh game without scrap everyting in the load order.
     
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  14. parrotheada1a

    parrotheada1a Well-Known Member

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    @chrizeren I'd like to toss my hand in. First off. I stopped using Scrap Everything a full year+ before SS ever came out. I avoid it like the plague. Second, you CAN build settlements in the so called TOD if you forego city plans. Build stuff up yourself, you will be amazed with what you will learn to do. My last playthrough, I built up Red Rocket. I built up Abernathy and I lett SS build up Sanctuary on it's own with minimal involvement. Very few CTD's or slowdowns of any kind.

    Truthfully, I don't build city plans because I cannot abide by the limitations. To me they look nice IF you like that depression era hobo camp look. I am more of a clean aesthetic 'build it with whatever you have in the box' kinda builder. Please understand that I am NOT ragging on any builders, especially since the talent we have here is just incredible. I love seeing what people do with SS.

    Whatever you do, have fun with this. After all, it's the reason you bought the game in the first place.
     
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  15. chrizeren

    chrizeren New Member

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    The only reason i used scrap everything was because my ocd couldn't cope with all the trash and shrubs/bushes poking through everything, like someone having a massive bush going through their living room. But now things seem to be going ok. Havent had any crashes after getting rid of scrap everything.

    @parrotheada1a For me, i think its just a sprinkle of lazyness, and the feeling of watching the wasteland come to life bit by bit by having settlements build up over time - it gives me more enjoyment than physically building up every settlement i come by. Ironically, when i first played it on ps4, before mods, i used a lot of time building a bunch of settlements with the limited tools at my disposal. When i finally got it on pc and could use mods, it's like i got overstimulated by the sheer amount of mods, i had no idea where to even start.
     
  16. stjohnmccloskey

    stjohnmccloskey Member

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    I feel the exact same way! I like city plans for that, although, even without city plans, just dropping plots feels pretty similar. I also used to spend ages in settlement building and now i have no interest in playing mama bear to a bunch of settlers. It also feels much less like I'm the one true savior come forth from myth to save the world. I hate that! I much prefer the sense that these are capable independent people who are taking care of themselves and each other and that I just help.

    If you can stomach it, try just dropping plots around; you don't ahve to get too cute or clever with it, they'll build into nice structures that have lots of character and develop in awesome ways!

    As for OCD, I always set plots up on foundations over those stupid bushes. It's only a tiny bit more work (you can make sim settlements automatically make a foundation, and then you just have to add stairs). Also, check out the Clean and Simple mod! it's a bunch of "pre-cleaned-up" settlements; very OCD friendly :P No navmesh issues, and compatible with sim settlements (I don't use it, but I tried it out and it worked well. It was too clean for me, i like the scrappy hobo look. I don't know how compatible they are with the sim settlements city plans).
     
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  17. parrotheada1a

    parrotheada1a Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't have said it better. Think of this for a moment. You come out a vault, on a mission to find your kid. That's all you want to do. Then you find out that you have been gone for over 200 years. So...knowing what you do about a human's lifespan, you get this sinking feeling in your gut that you are probably not gonna find him alive...more like his grandchildren. You have zero idea where to start looking. And right when you do, you start getting sidetracked into taking care of other peoples problems instead of finding your son. And that's just the start of it. If you DO go out and start on a Minuteman quest, instead of commanding the militia.... YOU get assigned to the work! WTF is up with that? It's not like you can tell Preston to kiss your ass... or can you? Sorry about taking the thread onto a different path..... you have been railroaded! :yahoo
     
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  18. stjohnmccloskey

    stjohnmccloskey Member

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    And it's worse than that! I don't mind getting sidetracked by "we're getting attacked by raiders/gunners/super mutants, please go stop them." That's pretty fair. No, not only do you have to disassemble all the carpets to make beds for everyone, you also often have to tell each individual what bed to sleep in. Not only do you have to plant the crops, but you often have to tell settlers to tend to them! Not only do you have to build a community of settlements who engage in mutual aid and collective defense, you have to tell specific settlers where to live, what to guard, and what to carry to and from where! And if you want them to have homes rather than just ratty sleeping bags on the floor, you have to build them from the ground up; you have to decorate it for them, with all their favorite things etc. :P

    I love the clutter in sim settlements, it makes it feel so much more alive. Even when I used to take the time to make people's spaces "nice" (to my own sense of nice), I could never make it feel "lived in." Certainly not by anyone other than me! Sorry for rambling so much :P
     
  19. parrotheada1a

    parrotheada1a Well-Known Member

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    Ah.... but not exactly so young padawan. You can set it up for minimal handholding in the MCM menu. You can use a city plan... or you can build plots of your choosing and let them upgrade at their own pace. What truly helps with that aspect are the megapacks. You can make it look like a serious well zoned town, or a scrap heap.
     
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  20. stjohnmccloskey

    stjohnmccloskey Member

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    Oh to be clear I was saying that's how I felt about the game *without* sim settlements. I thought that's what you were agreeing with! With sim settlements i am much happier to either use a city plan and say "this seems like a good place, build an awesome city!" or else place down a bunch of plots and say "someone farm here, someone build a house here etc." Feels infinitely better, I don't feel like I'm assigned the work of building, decorating, and managing everyone's home :P

    And even in the vanilla there is auto-assignment, but it often seems to get gummed up and confused.

    So yeah, that's how I felt before sim settlements. Now I feel like "these are capable independent people who are taking care of themselves and each other and that I just help." I just hit 100 population in settlements and it feels like they did it without me! It feels so good :D
     
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