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60MB of save file for Sim Settlements?

@pra Did you go to an interior plot before creating the save to purge the threads? Maybe do that and then change the threads to 20 temporarily and wait for a bit and see if they go away on their own to some degree.

On my save I went back and did a full destruct on each settlement since the global holotape option didn't include city objects. That didn't really do much on the file size. It went down maybe another 6MB.

I did find that water troughs were making up to 100 or so duplicate water effects in the same spot using a vanilla object so I'm sure that doesn't help anything. I can delete those when I get back to my regular game.

I have made copies of my save game where there are no more non-vanilla objects remaining in the settlements; no plots, no new furniture, etc., and another where Sim Settlements was uninstalled but before the cleanup was run.

There's nothing I can do beyond this and I can't really fix it. Maybe there's some opportunity for testing future settlement cleanups but I doubt it'll be worth the effort unless this happens to more people. Most players probably don't keep the same game going this long though.

With Sim Settlements and 13 active settlements:

Save file size: 94.3 MB
Script Instances: 258,037
Changeforms: 519,617
Arrays: 91,947

With Sim Settlements and 13 wiped settlements:

Save file size: 88.2 MB
Script Instances: 235,826
ChangeForms: 493,351
Arrays: 59,501

Remaining arrays include
4582 Autobuilder
2566 various Simsettlements

Remaining script instances:
1849 simsettlements:soundscapeemitter
9892 SimSettlements:ASAMSensor
1022 simsettlements:flagmanager
615 SimSettlements:nerd:eerRecipeObjectRef
55 SimSettlements:nerd:eerRecipe
127 SimSettlements:kgSIM_MoveOnActivate
641 SimSettlements:kgSIM_Spotlight
1848 SimSettlements:soundscapeemitter

After uninstalling:

36,060 unattached instances of workshopobjectscript

Save file size: 32 MB
Script Instances: 153,431
ChangeForms: 238,054
Arrays: 6,321
 
I had these threads in there for quite a while. Don't think they would have gone away.

I think I fixed my problem. I set the nr. of threads to 1, waited a little, and tech trees started working. Then I set it back to 10. This seems to have updated/restarted the thread system.
 
So I had clutter = yes, high poly = yes, and extra lights = yes. When I changed the settings to change JUST high poly and extra lights to no my save file grew another 2MB after it completed. When I originally changed clutter from no to yes it grew 2MB but I expected it to but not when I leave it yes both before and after.

My new totals after applying performance settings:

Save file size: 97MB
Script instances: 264,740
Changeforms: 538,109
Arrays 96,474

It would be entirely consistent with what I see in the data left after removing all settlement objects if when applying new performance settings the objects belonging to the original plots were not being removed completely. This includes sound effects (machinery, etc), clutter (plants, sleeping bags, pallets, etc).

@kinggath When refreshing a plot are the old objects associated with the plot disabled first and then deleted? Could the deletion not be completing or not include some of the references and data related to these objects? Is the individual manual plot refresh the same method as when all of the plots are refreshed after a performance setting change?

@pra in your big save what performance settings are you using?

I think to test this to see the most effect it would be necessary to set all of the performance settings to yes to start with (yes to clutter, extra lights, etc) and, if necessary, wait for the performance settings to be applied. Then changes JUST the extra lights and extra detail/high poly to no and let the performance settings be applied. If I'm right about the cause then it'll spawn extra objects without completely removing the old ones.
 
Yes, items are disabled, unlinked, and deleted.

Sounds like there's something in your save (or possibly even an engine bug), preventing the game from correctly cleaning up deleted items. One way to test this theory would be to select an object in console that is on a plot and write down it's object reference ID from the top of your console.

Next, refresh the plot so that item is deleted.

Now, fast travel to another Worldspace, such as Far Harbor or Nukaworld. Then save and load your game.

After you load back up, run prid X Where X is the object reference ID you wrote down. If it finds an object, and you can't tell what it is, try running player.moveto X which will teleport you to the object.

If it takes you to that plot, that confirms the item isn't being cleaned up by the engine as it should be.
 
Yep, items belonging to the former plot can still be referenced with prid. I have the "Better Console" mod which gives the full info so I can see what it is. I can move to the objects too but they don't show up if I enable them. I even went to Nukaworld and the moveto teleported me back to the object.

Can the cleanup script remove disabled objects which were supposed to be deleted? That would save my game. Hopefully, if it doesn't explode. :)

Edit: Picking a random tree in the console and using "disable;markfordelete" saving and then reloading doesn't make it delete either :-(
 
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Hm. Is there a way to figure out whenever an object is supposed to belong to a plot or not? It might be possible to automate the cleaning of orphaned objects.

I wanted to look into something like that anyway. I had that issue once (and maybe I still do) that a disabled plot which I assumed I had scrapped was ruining my power usage statistics. Apparently it still counted as an unpowered object...

@Cranky Cat try deleting it using resaver. I think you can search by ref ID there.
 
@pra Come to think of it, a cleanup probably wouldn't help if markfordelete doesn't even work. There are tens of thousands of deleted objects so I asked the resaver author about how to tell which items are marked for deletion. It wouldn't be ideal but if I could filter on that it could work.

I tried testing again after deleting my ini files to force re-creation of the defaults and running without f4se, the unofficial patch, and scrapping mods. No dice. Nothing changed. :-(

I do know the game deletes objects if the mod is no longer active though and that certainly clears them out. You'd think deletions would still work too.
 
If a cleanup doesn't work, I could at least dump their refIDs to the logfile.
Though I *THINK* that if markfordelete doesn't work, it means that something is still holding a reference to the object, for some reason. But resaver might be able to find that.
 
I wonder what could hold a reference? I tried it with vanilla objects not created by Sim Settlements too including objects not within a settlement. I'll wait to see if the Resaver author has any information.

Edit: Exporting to a file could help if nothing else does. I see there's a "batch cleanup" option on Resaver so maybe I could generate a batch from the list. I wonder if I could really be the only person with this issue. It seems pretty fundamental for deleting objects to actually work correctly and I'm not sure how it could be broken.
 
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Well, it isn't Sim Settlements since the issue occurs without it. The good news is that if I eliminate everything the deletions work so I should be able to use the process of elimination to find the culprit!

Edit: nevermind, I tested it wrong. Deletes work as expected in the save after Sim Settlements was uninstalled.
 
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Well, I didn't get anywhere with it. I got the game down to the DLCs, the unofficial Fallout 4 patch, and the Sim Settlements 3-in-1 and that's it. The only objects affected appear to be those created by Sim Settlements though. Vanilla objects which already exist in the base game are fine.

I'd really appreciate it if the issue could be found and here's a link to the file. Post your Amazon wish list if you figure it out :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p47ng5mt6ll0tb4/crankycat.7z?dl=0
 
You can check what is persisting an object by priding it and running dppi

That will dump to your papyrus log everything that is keeping the item from being deleted.
 
Before deleting the object shows

[07/06/2018 - 11:51:25PM] Object Variables:
[07/06/2018 - 11:51:25PM] [simsettlements:simplot < (FF16CF6D)>].kSpawnedMultiStageItems[6].kSpawnRef
[07/06/2018 - 11:51:25PM] [simsettlements:simplot < (FF16CF6D)>].::RandomizedSpawns_var[4]

Unfortunately, it shows nothing after moving to a new space, saving, quitting, and then reloading.

[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Persistence information for (FF16C94F):
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Object Variables:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Stack Variables:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Remote Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Animation Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Combat Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Custom Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Distance Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Inventory Filters:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] LOS Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Menu Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Sleep Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Teleport Events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Timers:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Tracked stat events:
[07/06/2018 - 11:55:18PM] Wait Events:
 
So by all accounts, that item should be clearing out from your save.

I think I already suggested this earlier in the thread (way too tired to read back through right this second), but if you build a plot in a fresh save and refresh it, leave the area, save, and load, does that item reference remain alive?

If you do that without F4SE and just SS installed does the reference remain alive?

Really grasping at straws here, but it's the only thing I can think to try.
 
yeah, I don't even know how something could interfere with the game engine's clearing of deleted workshop objects unless the force persistence flag is set on them. That would do it right?

The items on plots are marked [pp][t] until they are marked for deletion and that just adds [d]. I'll try the fresh save next weekend since I'm sick of it right now :-p

Edit: does [t] mean temporary persistence created automatically from having a linked ref like the parent plot to the child placed objects?

Edit2: Could I still have a really old version of a Sim Settlement script in the save where there was a bug at one time?
 
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If I select the zombie object with prid and use the console command 'fp' (forcepersistence) then it is immediately removed without even changing locations. So on the plus side there's a way to get rid of them with scripting :)

*is* it possible for an old copy of a script to continue being executed despite the mod being updated? I'll try the new save later but will have to go through the whole beginning of the game again to get to where I can even test.

Another freaking edit: Since there is no objectreference anymore I'm not sure you can even find the items in a script.
 
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I tried on a new game had the issue there too. I don't look forward to scrubbing my fallout folder and reinstalling everything. Maybe I can do it on another PC.
 
[t] means temporary, [d] means set to delete the next time the item is not persisted.
 
I asked around and another potential cause of this is linked references. I generally clear all linked refs, but perhaps one of them isn't breaking correctly. Try the following on some of those items:


getlinkedref workshopitemkeyword
getlinkedref kgSIM_PlotSpawned
getlinkedref kgSIM_PlotSpawnedMultiStage

All of those should return something like <00000000>

If it has an actual reference instead of all 0's, try priding whatever it is linked to and let me know what you find.
 
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