Unloaded Settlements consistently show negative food rating.

[Azuraal]

Over the last few days I've been trying to track down the cause and fix it but I come up empty. I tried Buffout 4, Baka scrap heap, ini tweaks and so on to help with script stability. I tried switching from SS2 caravan plot to IDEK's logistics station with and without that mod's redistribution system. I tried disabling food and water sharing in workshop framework, and lastly I got rid of caravan connections all together an the same; Negative food in many unloaded settlements, and only food.
(To be clear whenever things didn't help I loaded the save from before changing things)

The one thing I didn't try is if the issue would occur on a new save. But I don't have the patience for that, at least not now, and I'm not starting a new game anyway.
The only mod in my load order that I could imagine conflicting would be Damn Apocalypse overhaul as it changes the levelled list for items produced by the settlement and dumped into the workshop, though I doubt that would be a problem, correct me if I'm wrong.

Spoiler: Load Order

# Automatically generated by Vortex
Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
DamnApocalypse_CORE.esm
XDI.esm
CanarySaveFileMonitor.esl
HUDFramework.esm
LWIS-INNRs-Full.esl
WorkshopFramework.esm
SS2.esm
NQAS - Automatron.esl
Realistic Weapons Weight - UFO4 Patch.esl
plasmaproject.esp
instituteproject2k.esp
laserproject2k.esp
huntingrifleset2k.esp
ballisticproject2k.esp
DamnApocalypse_Loot.esp
DamnApocalypse_CombatTweaks.esp
SS2_XDI Patch.esp
advancedAITweaks.esp
Vivid Weathers - FO4.esp
Vivid Weathers - Nuka World.esp
Vivid Weathers - FO4 - Far Harbor.esp
Vivid Weathers - FO4 - Autumn.esp
DX_Predator.esp
FPVGunnerFix.esp
LWIS-Overrides-Full.esp
Far Harbor Ballistic Weaver.esp
Ballistic Weaver NW.esp
BallisticWeaver.esp
Better Landscape Grass.esp
ImmersiveCleaning.esp
DamnApocalypse_PowerArmor.esp
Better Vertibird.esp
M8rDisablePipboyEffects.esp
Faster Terminal Displays (20x).esp
JTC.esp
LevelCap.esp
LooksMenu.esp
disablelegendaryspawns.esp
Realistic Survival Damage.esp
RealNightVision.esp
SS2_CityPlanPack_RiseOfTheCommonwealth.esp
SS2Extended.esp
SimpleSurvivalConsole.esp
Sneak Rank 5 Perk - Subtle Effect.esp
SCM.esp
The Eyes Of Beauty.esp
TrueInvisibility.esp
VAFS Redux.esp
VAFS Redux DLC Patch.esp
Vivid Fallout - All in One - Best Choice.esp
LWIS-Tweaks.esp
Vivid Waters.esp
FPVertibird.esp
LWIS-Patch.esp

 

[LordNSR]

Food/water going negative is a vanilla bug I hear, for me it happens from time to time but the last version of IDEK teleports me to that settlement to fix it then back to where I was but it's definitely annoying.

 

[Cyberslas]

Yup, it's a vanilla thing. The following link has an explanation of its cause.

https://simsettlements.com/site/index.php?threads/understanding-ctds-in-the-triangle-of-death-sanctuary-abernathy-farm-and-red-rocket.6964/post-51353

 

[MarkMonfang]

Food/water going negative is a vanilla bug I hear, for me it happens from time to time but the last version of IDEK teleports me to that settlement to fix it then back to where I was but it's definitely annoying.

My prior play through had that issue. But it didn't seem tl actually resolve it to teleport.

I will try and remember to make a report If it happens again.

 

[Azuraal]

Food/water going negative is a vanilla bug I hear, for me it happens from time to time but the last version of IDEK teleports me to that settlement to fix it then back to where I was but it's definitely annoying.

For me it happens nearly all the time, and IDEK's resource monitor doesn't help. It will detect the problem, teleport and back, but it doesn't actually fix it.

So what can I do? Because this is rather game breaking. In addition to happiness tanking, the settlements eat up all the food in the workshops to solve the imaginary famine.
It's not like I'm overwhelming the scripting engine with 4 settlers and 8 plots in starlight drive-in. And I never had this problem to this extent. Occasionally it happened and I just needed to visit the settlement to refresh it.
I can't be sure if it's related as I started this game after last update, but my suspicion is that it's related to fixing food and water sharing, as the only settlements that didn't have the issue are the ones that didn't produce any food on its own and were importing everything. Though it might as well be because nothing can break if there is nothing there.

 

[Din'elen DarkStar]

If you added or subtracted mods mid game your save could be hosed. I'd try running your save through resaver. But usually if you added or subtract mods mid game a new one is upcoming in any event so might as well start one now.

 

[Azuraal]

Ok, after some more testing I am damn near sure the problem is caused by food sharing. At least on my save.
I was able to fix the issue by carefully removing the caravan plot, (first time around I just scrapped it which must have left behind some things). I made every settlement more or less self sufficient and played for an hour or two ignoring the settlements. Food and water stayed as it should be though out.

Now I went to sanctuary and started carefully adding caravan plots back in.
First try: Both Sanctuary and Abernathy Farm have significant food and water surplus, I attach them both to caravan network and set my sight on Starlight drive-in. I decide to test if now food sharing will work, I replace the two farms with industrial plots and replace the water shed with caravan plot.
I check the workshops tab, both Abernathy and Sanctuary have negative food value.

Second try: Now I replace the one farm with caravan plot, the other farm being sufficient to fulfil the food need in the settlement. Starlight is attached to caravan network no problems show.

I attach Tenpines bluff no problem.

Greygarden, here I have an issue because there are not many plots to juggle. I decide to turn the watershed into a caravan plot.
No issues show, after a while the 0 water turns into 9 water to fulfil the agricultural water need. No settlement shows negative water.

Oberland and hangman's alley are attached no problem.

In Jamaika Plains I turn one farm into caravan plot, before it starts to build, the food need goes down ever so slightly, the other farm is enough to feed everyone, but not to fulfil the dynamic needs. When the Caravan plot completes Sanctuary, Abernathy, Greygarden, Oberland and Hangman's Alley all show negative food. All the Settlements with food surplus. Meanwhile In Jamaika food jumps from 10 to 14 to fulfil the food need.
I reload a previous save and construct a caravan plot in Jamaika without touching food. Settlement is attached to the network, no other settlement has negative values.

 

[Azuraal]

For unrelated reasons I ended up starting over on a new save. Still the exact same issue. Whenever Food transfer triggers all supplier settlements end up with negative food.
Could I get a confirmation weather or not this is a known, confirmed issue, and if so when can I expect for it to be fixed? Because especially on survival this is supremely annoying and it keeps me from enjoying the rest of this great mod.

 

[msalaba]

From what I remember, the workshop tab on the Pipboy has displayed incorrect data since FO4 was released. For this reason, I have ignored that tab since a long time ago. IIRC, the code that populates the data is hard coded in the exe. Unless a crack team of genius programmers are assembled this will likely never be solved.
I may be wrong though. Its an issue I never devoted much time to investigate.

 

[Azuraal]

From what I remember, the workshop tab on the Pipboy has displayed incorrect data since FO4 was released. For this reason, I have ignored that tab since a long time ago. IIRC, the code that populates the data is hard coded in the exe. Unless a crack team of genius programmers are assembled this will likely never be solved.
I may be wrong though. Its an issue I never devoted much time to investigate.

It's not just a display bug as far as I can tell. The settlements genuinely don't have food, causing the happiness to drop and food being consumed from the workshop inventory.

EDIT: I would like to point out this is a new issue for me. I experienced the workshop tab displaying wrong things since I bought Fallout 4 years ago, in SS1 and in SS2, but this doesn't occur just randomly, but on point when food transfer is triggered all across the caravan network, and does cause gameplay problems.
Since it's my pet peeve issue that has stalled my current game, would it help if I prepared a minimal load order save with the problem set up to trigger?

 

[Cyberslas]

It's not just a display bug as far as I can tell. The settlements genuinely don't have food, causing the happiness to drop and food being consumed from the workshop inventory.

From peeping at the scripts myself, food is always consumed from the workshop regardless of how high your food rating is and this is 100% intended. You just may not notice it because the settlement produces more food than it uses so it always stays topped up. As far as your negative food issue, I couldn't say for sure what the issue is.

 

[EyeDeck]

From what I remember, the workshop tab on the Pipboy has displayed incorrect data since FO4 was released.

The data shown in the pip-boy is correct, the data stored on the workbenches is what gets corrupted.

For this, there are two main causes:

• Settlements not being 100% loaded when a settlement recaches resource data (runs the native ObjectReference.RecalculateResources() function on the workbench). Only loaded objects will be included in the cached data, so if this happens while a settlement is partially or completely unloaded, stored data can be anywhere between slightly and completely inaccurate.
  This happens constantly in vanilla, but UFO4P and by extension WSFW should greatly reduce occurrences of this.
• Something meddling with the stored values by calling Get/SetValue() directly on the workbench. There are a few places in vanilla where this happens but they don't generally cause issues (except with population values, which is also fixed by UFO4P).

SS2 does the second thing a lot, and it's most likely ultimately the cause of the problem here (if it were the first one, water, defense, beds and possibly power would all be corrupted too). Why, exactly, I cannot offer any insight—I guess somewhere some numbers must be wrong, and the data ultimately fed back into the workbench via SetValue() just isn't accurate.

You could try using my Logistics Desks instead of full SS2 caravan plots and see what happens, if there isn't any way to turn off SS2's caravan plot resource sharing system. I'm pretty confident at this point that my code for this is bug-free.

 

[Humble]

I signed up due to having this exact same issue, but i don't see a resolution posted here. Is there an update for further information on possible fixes for this?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

I signed up due to having this exact same issue, but i don't see a resolution posted here. Is there an update for further information on possible fixes for this?

As far as the exact cause, I don't think anyone definitively figured out what is going on to cause this - but I believe the theory was something to do with having travelled within the game world close enough for the game to only load part of a settlement (the game only keeps an amount of gameworld "active" based on a radius around the player), causing it to get confused about what was actually there.
In terms of "fixes", similar thing there - can't really fix something if you don't even know what the root cause is. Only temporary solution I've ever found myself is to physically go to each settlement and then just sit there next to the Workbench object for a while to let it properly recalculate, but that's kind of a pain in the posterior.

 

[Humble]

As far as the exact cause, I don't think anyone definitively figured out what is going on to cause this - but I believe the theory was something to do with having travelled within the game world close enough for the game to only load part of a settlement (the game only keeps an amount of gameworld "active" based on a radius around the player), causing it to get confused about what was actually there.
In terms of "fixes", similar thing there - can't really fix something if you don't even know what the root cause is. Only temporary solution I've ever found myself is to physically go to each settlement and then just sit there next to the Workbench object for a while to let it properly recalculate, but that's kind of a pain in the posterior.

Unfortunately as soon as you leave it gets recalc'd again and you end up with 4 more supposedly producing settlements suddenly giving you -a million food. It seems to calculate properly again when I turn off global sharing in IDEK, but I'm not sure then if that just defeats the whole purpose of using IDEK. What's the point in having dedicated farms if every settlement has to grow their own food to not bug out?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Unfortunately as soon as you leave it gets recalc'd again and you end up with 4 more supposedly producing settlements suddenly giving you -a million food. It seems to calculate properly again when I turn off global sharing in IDEK, but I'm not sure then if that just defeats the whole purpose of using IDEK. What's the point in having dedicated farms if every settlement has to grow their own food to not bug out?

Yeah, I really don't know. I've legitimately never seen it happen myself in my own games, only saves others have sent me, so I don't even know where to start looking for potential causes/solutions - there may be a clue in there in the fact that I've never had it happen myself, but I can't figure it out. Sorry for not being able to help.

 

[Humble]

Yeah, I really don't know. I've legitimately never seen it happen myself in my own games, only saves others have sent me, so I don't even know where to start looking for potential causes/solutions - there may be a clue in there in the fact that I've never had it happen myself, but I can't figure it out. Sorry for not being able to help.

It's all good, the onus is not on you individually to be able to solve this, but if a bunch of us with similar issues put our heads together and write about it, maybe the solution will present itself

 

[Humble]

Little late but I found a semi solution that reduces instances from a serious problem of whack a mole taking up all your time to a manageable level of buggy. Try turning off resource sharing in the workshop framework and rely on IDEK sharing only. Both on seems to multiply problems. Now to figure out why my timescale keeps getting set to 1 when i enter workshop mode and remains 1 when i leave it...

 

[Din'elen DarkStar]

Little late but I found a semi solution that reduces instances from a serious problem of whack a mole taking up all your time to a manageable level of buggy. Try turning off resource sharing in the workshop framework and rely on IDEK sharing only. Both on seems to multiply problems. Now to figure out why my timescale keeps getting set to 1 when i enter workshop mode and remains 1 when i leave it...

Do you use workshop +? it has timescale settings that could be getting crossed up somehow.

 

[Infeksion]

Little late but I found a semi solution that reduces instances from a serious problem of whack a mole taking up all your time to a manageable level of buggy. Try turning off resource sharing in the workshop framework and rely on IDEK sharing only. Both on seems to multiply problems. Now to figure out why my timescale keeps getting set to 1 when i enter workshop mode and remains 1 when i leave it...

I'm going to try this. I have already replaced all the caravan plots with IDEK LS2 plots, but I'm jerked away ever so often to fix drop in food values. Never thought of the WSFW setting.

I'm still confused though... I thought all these tools are designed to work together to make the settlement gameplay a viable roleplaying option. I avoid the Minutemen quest-line like a glowing molerat (if Preston is going to try one more "man-to-man" conversation with me again.....), and SS2's questline is a definite alternative. But that's only true if it works as intended. For instance, lately my settlers reassign themselves every time I fast travel to a settlement (it only happens where my settler count are above 10 settlers) - It would be ok if I was not trying to "develop" my settlements. Need 3 gifted endurance settlers to work a high-tech farm, easy - just assign them to an endurance building recreational plot..... only to discover 5 game days later they have reassigned themselves to charisma training, and the merchants you are trying to train are pumping iron..... go figure that out....