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Old Post Three Situations - Need Assisance

Slb1

Active Member
Messages
368
Recently, I started a new game with SS Conqueror/Liberator and Takarazuka's BoS Faction pack plus 42 other mods including SS, SS RotC, and Workshop Framework; and have played more than 50 hours total. Three situations occurred that may or may not be related to SS Conqueror - two have never occurred before after 1,000's of hours of FO4 gameplay. The third situation is relevant, but I may have misunderstood what kinggath said was supposed to happen.

1. CTD After Saving

This has never occurred before. I was playing on survival mode with the Survival Options mod and using a save item. The problem started after about 40 hours of gameplay and occurred with both the save item and the exit save. I was able to roll back to an earlier save and continue to play for a while and then it would restart. To try to correct this situation, today, I deleted and reinstalled FO4 and all mods, disabled the survival options mod and changed the mode to normal, disabled several additional mods including Conqueror, Workshop Framework and BoS Faction pack, deleted the .ini files, and rolled back to an earlier save (1d 10hr 39m). The CTD restarted after a short amount of game play.

2. Quit to Desktop Locks up

I have never had this occur before. After about 30 hours of gameplay, the game froze at the main menu Quit and I had to use Cntrl-Alt-Delete. This started before the CTD After Saving. It still continued after the attempted fixes in #1.

3. Strange Behavior at Starlight

In this new game, I have two settlements, Sanctuary and Red Rocket, one Outpost at Boston Airport with Nordhagen as the vassal, and interacted with Abernathy. Next, I decided to make Starlight an Outpost, and planned the assault at BA. During my first attempt, the Gunner fought me and the BoS Recruits, but the civilians only targeted the Recruits and not me. When I lost this, I went back to an earlier save and tried again. This time I used a Fatman to takeout the Raiders, but now the civilians did not fight either me or the BoS Recruits. After Starlight was declared an Outpost, 15 civilians were still there and I could interact with both the BoS Recruits and civilians as settlers. The BoS Recruits did not return to the Boston Airport. Later, I placed a Field Command desk at Starlight, because I understood kinggath to say you needed one to recruit at an Outpost.

I appreciate any/all assistance – thank you.
 

Phil_T_Casual

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,208
1 Sounds like save bloat.
2. Is a mod conflict and you will have to narrow it down.
3. Sorry can't help I haven't used any factions packs yet.

Show your loadorder that way we might be able to tell you more about #1
 

MrCJohn

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,457
To be honest, I can tell you from my experience, I have been seeing a lot of my games start doing weird things around the 20 to 30 hour in-game mark. Today, I have been trying to figure out simply why my Looksmenu and Compendium (ie hair colors, face paints, etc) isn't showing up in Character creation... (any ideas would be helpful!) (and yes, yes, and yes... all the hair combos, KSHairdos, beards, and all that jazz)

But in seriousness, this all started around the time Looksmenu 1.6.13 I think, did an update for new Fallout version, new silverlock fallout 4 script extender... where when you would hit clothes off to do body tattoos, it would lock up the game... still doing it today even though the Looksmenu MA did another update for 1.10.130... just carried the same problem into a new version.

My personal opinion is that something happened in that time. People say it was "just" a Fallout update, no biggie... right? Considering I am using basically the same load order since last November, I am suspect to this being much more than a simple mod conflict. I think it is a deeper code issue. Yes, file size bloat seems to be a problem. I have Conqueror saves around 40 to 45mb when I start hitting "weirdness"... or even non-conqueror SS saves...

Not saying Looksmenu is the problem, I am suspecting it is actually a much deeper Silverlock problem. I have noticed so many comments now where the MA comes back with the "sounds like a bad F4SE install" … the number of instances has become so high (IMHO), that a common thread or common source of a lot of different of people having issues with Fallout 4... is "bad F4SE install"...

We can all sit down and do fish bone diagrams, ask the 5 why's... but deep down, something will still feel not right.

My 2cents on a Saturday night without much of a life! :)

John
 

Slb1

Active Member
Messages
368
John - thanks for the new info to be considered. Not to show my age - Saturday Nights Alright for Fighting "Raiders" I hope Elton John is not upset

Phil - regarding:
1. CTD After Saving
I have deleted all but 16 Saves from My Documents/My Games/Fallout4/Saves folder.

2. Quit to Desktop Locks Up
After deleted/reinstalling FO4 and the Mods, and playing my last save (1d 10hr 39m) for about 15 minutes, the current load order is:

HUDFramework (PC)
Workshop Framework
True Storms Wasteland Edition – Intense Weather, Sounds, Effects
Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR) (PC: No DLC)
Sim Settlements
Sim Settlements - IDEKs Logistics Station
Alternate Fusion Core Drain
More Durable Power Armor - 75%
Ammo Weight
Fallout Loot Overhaul
BetterSettlers
BetterSettlersMortalPack
ImmersiveScrapping
IMG Castle Wall Patches
Scrap Everything - Core
Yet Another Prydwen Overhaul
Simple Survival Console Enable
SKK Settlement Attack System (PC)
Reclaim the Airport - Boston Airport
Craft Weapons & Scrap Ammo by SKK
SKK Fast BoS (ArcJet triggers Prydwen) (PC)
Boston Airport Extended
Simple Local Leader Overhaul (PC)
No More Twigs
Boston Airport Settlement Bus Removal
Salvage Beacons
Operation Manhattan - New York BoS Quest (PC)
Move the workbenches (PC)
Scrape Those Red Rocket Pump Arms No DLC
Accurate Minigun (PC)
Tales from the Commonwealth
Survival Options
Improved BoS (PC)
Free Vertibird Grenades
D13 Settlement Institute Synth Spy Detection and Elimination
Tougher Vertibirds
Vault 81 Disease Fix and Protection – No DLC Version (PC)
Improved Map with Visible Roads
No moving parts! No recoil! Realistic Laser Weaponry – Recoil Removed
Craft Fusion Core
JunkWalls More Snaps
Armorsmith Extended V3.02 Full Version (PC)
Weapon Balance Overhaul
Simply Craftable Vertibird Grenade
Campsite - Simple Wasteland Camping
Sim Settlements Mayors
Sim Settlements Conqueror
Sim Settlements Conqueror Brotherhood of Steel Faction Pack
Sim Settlements Mega Pack Year One
Sim Settlements Rise of the Commonwealth
Sim Settlements Industrial Revolution
Sim Settlements Wasteland Venturers – Addon Pack
(SMM) Settlements Menu Manager
Sim Settlements - Ted's Leader Pack (PC)

I also have another 15 mods that are disabled. I assume (recognizing assumptions sometimes cause trouble) that I do not need to delete the mods only disable.

Update: Lastly, as I review these mods there may be a behavior conflict between SS Conqueror and SKK Settlement Attack System (PC). I will test this tomorrow. Per SKK50 on Nexus - this Mod is compatible with Conqueror.

3. Strange Behavior at Starlight
As a result of my Starlight experience, I have three questions regarding game mechanics:

(a) To assault/convert a settlement to an Outpost and playing as a “liberator,” is combat required with both the controlling faction and the civilians or just the faction?
(b) After combat do the liberators remain at the converted Outpost or return to their “home” Outpost?
(c) To recruit new faction liberators at a converted Outpost, I assume you need to build a Field Command desk?

Also, is this the best thread to ask these questions or should I post #3 in a different thread?

Thanks again.
 
Last edited:

MrCJohn

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,457
I am not familiar with the "liberator" so I can't help you there.

But as far as the load order, there seems to be some mods that could be altering mechanics. I am not sure, but I think Tales of the Commonwealth might have issues. Operation New York. I do not know how far reaching these are... you are much like me that I want a lot of play mods, etc... but alas, I have surrendered to the fact, more mods = more issues. Many can adjust things. Many overwrite and conflict.

I would say try and eliminate some of the bigger mods, find Resaver on Nexus, and learn to wipe out orphaned scripts... I know not a great answer, but one that has only helped me in finding "stability"...

I still believe there is a deeper issue going on, but I can't prove it.
John
 

Slb1

Active Member
Messages
368
John
Thanks for the suggestions regarding the mods and Resaver. Also, I actually looked at the size of the 16 Saves - 458 MB, which leads to the next question what is "bloat" on FO4.
Sid
 

Phil_T_Casual

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,208
Save bloat is 2 things, too many files in your folder, which you've already taken care of.
Then there's the size of the individual file, a large file 32mb+ early game or 70mb+ late game would be bloated. This usually points to script heavy mods.
Bloated saves are often a common symptom when people show up here with CTD problems.
Most of the time this can be sorted with 2 options: cleaning up the save with ReSaver and removing at least one script heavy mod.
 

MrCJohn

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,457
Save bloat is 2 things, too many files in your folder, which you've already taken care of.
Then there's the size of the individual file, a large file 32mb+ early game or 70mb+ late game would be bloated. This usually points to script heavy mods.
Bloated saves are often a common symptom when people show up here with CTD problems.
Most of the time this can be sorted with 2 options: cleaning up the save with ReSaver and removing at least one script heavy mod.

The only problem with this is in making Conqueror Pre-Builds, with level 4 cities, 30 to 40 is typical with the minimum of Conqueror requirements.
John
 

Slb1

Active Member
Messages
368
Well back to the drawing board - tried Resaver and it removed 3 orphaned script instances plus I disabled SS Wasteland Venturers, (Update) Tales of the Wasteland, True Storms and Campsite. Still CTD on saving. I did observe one strange occurrence - when I clicked on the save item, the fav heart flashed next to the item. Also, my saves at Level 21 are running 30-32 MB.

Update: Then I read this on Nexus FallrimTools Site:
Fallout 4 Special Note!!!
Unattached Instances are a normal part of how Fallout 4 operates. I recommend you NOT clean them until I figure out how to distinguish between the ones that are still in use and the ones that are not.

Thanks again - hopefully I with your asstance are making some progress.
 
Last edited:

MrCJohn

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,457
Well back to the drawing board - tried Resaver and it removed 3 orphaned script instances plus I disabled SS Wasteland Venturers, True Storms and Campsite. Still CTD on saving. I did observe one strange occurrence - when I clicked on the save item, the fav heart flashed next to the item. Also, my saves at Level 21 are running 30-32 MB.

Update: Then I read this on Nexus FallrimTools Site:
Fallout 4 Special Note!!!
Unattached Instances are a normal part of how Fallout 4 operates. I recommend you NOT clean them until I figure out how to distinguish between the ones that are still in use and the ones that are not.

Thanks again - hopefully I with your asstance are making some progress.

One thing I learned about using Resave, is that I uninstall the mods in a settlement like Sanctuary. Then reload game without those mods, save.
Fast travel to an interior space, like Home Plate.
Exit.
Resave file.
Reload Fallout 4.

What I have found is that the scripts still try and do stuff in the commonwealth and trying to reload into a cell you were in when uninstalled, causes CTD at startup for me... the above process works for me.

And yes, some instances are okay... like 1 to 5 is normal. Leave those. Like at 150, yeah, clean it with the above process.

Good luck!
John
 

cosmic-cube-keeper

Well-Known Member
Messages
186
I also have another 15 mods that are disabled. I assume (recognizing assumptions sometimes cause trouble) that I do not need to delete the mods only disable.

Something to keep in mind:
If a mod installs loose scripts which overwrite a vanilla script, that script will still be active even if you disable it (un-check the plugin in your mod manager). I think nowadays most mods which include scripts tend to use a BA2 archive, but not always.
 

MrCJohn

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
1,457
Something to keep in mind:
If a mod installs loose scripts which overwrite a vanilla script, that script will still be active even if you disable it (un-check the plugin in your mod manager). I think nowadays most mods which include scripts tend to use a BA2 archive, but not always.

Loose scripts & files not in BA2 definitely is an issue. I watch out for those but just be aware what they overwrite.

John
 

Rudy

Well-Known Member
Community Rockstar
Messages
395
Lemme just say that the peeps on this forum are awesome.
*furiously takes down notes*
 

Slb1

Active Member
Messages
368
My last effort was:

(1) disable all mods while at Starlight
(2) fast travel to Drumlin and fortunately I was able to save
(3) delete FO4; delete all saves, but one; and delete all mods, both Steam and the manual Nexus downloads
(4) reinstall FO4 from Steam
(5) play to the first save in the bathroom
(6) copy/paste the one old save and play from that point.

I could save again at this point, but the Quit lockup still occurred, leading me to conclude somehow the save was the cause. So, I again deleted FO4. While I am tempted to try FO4 Conqueror/BoS again from the beginning, I would appreciate any suggestions regarding mods before I start again.

I considered waiting for Starfield, but with all the problems Bethesda is having this year, I plan to delay this purchase. Hopefully, I can with your assistance resolve the FO4 issues.

Thanks again for everyone assistance.
 

Takarazuka

New Member
Messages
24
John - thanks for the new info to be considered. Not to show my age - Saturday Nights Alright for Fighting "Raiders" I hope Elton John is not upset

Phil - regarding:
1. CTD After Saving
I have deleted all but 16 Saves from My Documents/My Games/Fallout4/Saves folder.

2. Quit to Desktop Locks Up
After deleted/reinstalling FO4 and the Mods, and playing my last save (1d 10hr 39m) for about 15 minutes, the current load order is:

HUDFramework (PC)
Workshop Framework
True Storms Wasteland Edition – Intense Weather, Sounds, Effects
Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR) (PC: No DLC)
Sim Settlements
Sim Settlements - IDEKs Logistics Station
Alternate Fusion Core Drain
More Durable Power Armor - 75%
Ammo Weight
Fallout Loot Overhaul
BetterSettlers
BetterSettlersMortalPack
ImmersiveScrapping
IMG Castle Wall Patches
Scrap Everything - Core
Yet Another Prydwen Overhaul
Simple Survival Console Enable
SKK Settlement Attack System (PC)
Reclaim the Airport - Boston Airport
Craft Weapons & Scrap Ammo by SKK
SKK Fast BoS (ArcJet triggers Prydwen) (PC)
Boston Airport Extended
Simple Local Leader Overhaul (PC)
No More Twigs
Boston Airport Settlement Bus Removal
Salvage Beacons
Operation Manhattan - New York BoS Quest (PC)
Move the workbenches (PC)
Scrape Those Red Rocket Pump Arms No DLC
Accurate Minigun (PC)
Tales from the Commonwealth
Survival Options
Improved BoS (PC)
Free Vertibird Grenades
D13 Settlement Institute Synth Spy Detection and Elimination
Tougher Vertibirds
Vault 81 Disease Fix and Protection – No DLC Version (PC)
Improved Map with Visible Roads
No moving parts! No recoil! Realistic Laser Weaponry – Recoil Removed
Craft Fusion Core
JunkWalls More Snaps
Armorsmith Extended V3.02 Full Version (PC)
Weapon Balance Overhaul
Simply Craftable Vertibird Grenade
Campsite - Simple Wasteland Camping
Sim Settlements Mayors
Sim Settlements Conqueror
Sim Settlements Conqueror Brotherhood of Steel Faction Pack
Sim Settlements Mega Pack Year One
Sim Settlements Rise of the Commonwealth
Sim Settlements Industrial Revolution
Sim Settlements Wasteland Venturers – Addon Pack
(SMM) Settlements Menu Manager
Sim Settlements - Ted's Leader Pack (PC)

I also have another 15 mods that are disabled. I assume (recognizing assumptions sometimes cause trouble) that I do not need to delete the mods only disable.

Update: Lastly, as I review these mods there may be a behavior conflict between SS Conqueror and SKK Settlement Attack System (PC). I will test this tomorrow. Per SKK50 on Nexus - this Mod is compatible with Conqueror.

3. Strange Behavior at Starlight
As a result of my Starlight experience, I have three questions regarding game mechanics:

(a) To assault/convert a settlement to an Outpost and playing as a “liberator,” is combat required with both the controlling faction and the civilians or just the faction?
(b) After combat do the liberators remain at the converted Outpost or return to their “home” Outpost?
(c) To recruit new faction liberators at a converted Outpost, I assume you need to build a Field Command desk?

Also, is this the best thread to ask these questions or should I post #3 in a different thread?

Thanks again.

So I will try to address some stuff you have here in regards to mods, my faction pack, and a few others... everything else seems to have been addressed with issues with save bloat and CTDs.

In your load order, I would suggest the following:
- Get rid of Survival Options and get Survival Config Menu https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/37599. Survival Options is consistently a problem for a lot of people and has not been supported in a long time. SCM is regularly updated and I have always had good interactions with the mod author.
- You shouldn't need Tougher Vertibirds since you have Improved BOS and that mod overhauls Vertibird health and resistances as well.

Okay on to some questions you had in number three:
a) As a liberator, you only need to take out the raiders/gunners/whomever that are controlling the settlement when you attack it. Most of the settlers (if not all of them if it's working right) will be on their knees looking like captives. They do not always do this though, but they should be marked friendly. Sometimes I see the random civilian/settler joining the fight and I am not sure what causes this, but I just go with it as they were helping the bad guys.
b) If you take a settlement as an outpost, they remain there and that outpost becomes their new home. They are still in your "pool" of soldiers though for another assault even if you initiate it from another outpost. If you take a settlement as a vassal, they will return to their home outpost(s).
c) Yes, if you want to recruit new soldiers at a new outpost, you need another desk there.
 

Slb1

Active Member
Messages
368
Ah! – the saga continues. Now for Plan B or by now Plan Z.

After the Conqueror/Liberator mods came out, I planned to play as both the BoS and the MM. Late last year before Conqueror, I played the MM thru to completion with only two types of problems – infrequent CTDs at cell boundaries that I was able to bypass due to fast travel, and late game CTDs due to exiting Elianora’s Faction Housing – the Castle that I stopped by deleted the mod. Regrding the Liberator mod, I tried the BoS and encountered several problems as discussed above. Another situation that I did not previously mention was - when I assaulted Abernathy with Danse to make it a vassal, he attacked me immediately after the assault started. After researching the MM faction, many of these problems are also present in this Liberator/Faction play, so clearly this is a work in progress.

Now, I am going to try the MM with Preston as Conqueror/Liberators using the following mods. I have researched potential conflicts and deleted several mods with stated incompatibilities. This is not the load order yet, but your comments/assistance are appreciated, as always.

BASIC
HUDFramework (PC)
Workshop Framework
True Storms Wasteland Edition – Intense Weather, Sounds, Effects
Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR) (PC: No DLC)
Sim Settlements
Sim Settlements - IDEKs Logistics Station
Alternate Fusion Core Drain
More Durable Power Armor
Ammo Weight
Fallout Loot Overhaul
Immersive Scrapping
(Update) Settlement Savage Bot
Simple Survival Console Enable
SKK Settlement Attack System (PC)
Craft Weapons & Scrap Ammo by SKK
No More Twigs
Salvage Beacons
Move the workbenches (PC)
Scrape Those Red Rocket Pump Arms No DLC
Survival Options (Note to Takarazuka - thanks for the suggestion, but at this time, Survival Config Menu does not appear to allow fast travel, which has bailed me out on several occasions)
D13 Settlement Institute Synth Spy Detection and Elimination
Vault 81 Disease Fix and Protection – No DLC Version (PC)
Improved Map with Visible Roads
No moving parts! No recoil! Realistic Laser Weaponry – Recoil Removed
Craft Fusion Core
JunkWalls More Snaps
Armorsmith Extended V3.02 Full Version (PC)
Weapon Balance Overhaul
Campsite - Simple Wasteland Camping
(Update) Sim Settlements Rise of the Commonwealth
Sim Settlements Conqueror
Sim Settlements Mega Pack Year One
Sim Settlements Industrial Revolution
Sim Settlements Wasteland Venturers – Addon Pack
(SMM) Settlements Menu Manager
Combat Settlers Skk

MINUTEMEN
Craftable Castle Walls
We Are the Minutemen
Minutemen Watchtowers
Minutemen Conqueror Faction Addon by Doogle63
Improved Minutemen Artillery
 
Last edited:

spacefiddle

Active Member
Messages
313
Boston Airport Settlement Bus Removal
/heads to Nexus to get Yet Another Mod
I have Tales from the Commonwealth for years, and have been running it alongside SimSet with no issues I can perceive. I was using both on my former PC, may it res(e)t in p(eace/ieces).
On my new PC - I am also now seeing a freeze when trying to exit the game.
Interestingly, I can start the game, listen to the main menu music for a few seconds, then choose quit - having never loaded a save - and it still freezes. o.O
This has been intermittent. Sometimes it will happen 3-4 times in a row. Sometimes it does not happen. I was looking down the path of some other background process in Windows being the issue, we'll see.
 
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