Setting up a settlement plan. What happens to the scrap from all the stuff it removes?

[rhn]

Just getting started using the settlement plans/leaders in SS2. When you set up the settlement plan and leader, and it clears the area and builds the initial town layout, what happens to the scrap from everything it removes?
Set up Starlight Drive as my first settlement plan(through the quest). After it scrapped all the cars and stuff, the workshop was practically empty. No steel or wood. Had to go grab some from other settlement just to get the initial plots to build.
Just now I set up the Sanctuary plan, having it scrap all the vanilla stuff, some stuff I built initially and all the plots from the tutorial quests. Had a look at a few of the scrap numbers in the workshop before, and they stayed the exact same after settlement was set up. Even after building the plots...

Do the scrap just vanish? Is it put into a different "buffer"? Should I manually scrap things first to conserve the components for building plots after?
Also, is there no way to get the ASAMs back when deleting placed plots?

 

[rhn]

I had a look back at a conversation I had with Kinggath. The reason for the virtual resource system was to address performance issues with making too many calls to the vanilla workshop. In essence the virtual resource is a SS2 mirror of the workshop. There are some features and functions he wishes to add to make the mechanic work better. But, there are only so many hours in the day and we will have to wait and see what the future brings.

That makes total sense. And it would have been fine had there just been a way to extract scrap from this storage for use in settlement building. That or just communicate that SS2 is not meant to be played the same way as SS1.

 

[msalaba]

If you bothered looking instead of just being insulting, you could probably have seen my contributions on the tech tree spoiler discussions, etc.

I didn't mean to be insulting. I was just stating my opinion. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

 

[damanding]

We actually do have a volunteer who has been given reams of information from Kinggath on how things work to update the wiki with. We don't have public access on the wiki for anyone to change because that requires a level of moderation we simply don't have the moderation hours for. We instead ask that if people wish to contribute to the wiki, write something up and submit it and then we'll give you access.

As for the wiki volunteer who has a ton of information necessary to do wiki writeups, they too are a volunteer like the rest of us. They were sick and waiting for the holidays to pass but are now digging back into the project. It's a lot of writing to do!

We realize it's frustrating that there isn't more documentation at the start, the first priority has always been putting out new content and fixing critical bugs, then working on documentation. It's perhaps not ideal in some ways, but again, it's a volunteer project worked on by people with full time jobs. Even Kinggath himself has a full time job that has nothing to do with SS. He also has two very young children.

As someone who has been with this project since the beginning I've seen improvement in handling the initial release with each major release. Previous releases were much rougher than this one seems to some of you. But one thing that's very definitely a trend on every release is that it takes several months to get the major kinks worked out and decent documentation to be made available. It's just the nature of a major volunteer project.

As for the philosophy of SS2 vs SS1. Yes there were some changes made in how things work, this was partly based on technical reasons such as putting less stress on the poorly designed vanilla workshop system, but also for other reasons such as a style of gameplay that Kinggath likes. He's not going to change to a different style of game play for this mod so folks who have decided that it's not the right style for them may wish to revert to SS1.

 

[rhn]

As for the philosophy of SS2 vs SS1. Yes there were some changes made in how things work, this was partly based on technical reasons such as putting less stress on the poorly designed vanilla workshop system, but also for other reasons such as a style of gameplay that Kinggath likes. He's not going to change to a different style of game play for this mod so folks who have decided that it's not the right style for them may wish to revert to SS1.

But if you decide to change a fundamental concept of the mod, for whatever reason, why not explain that? As I have said several times now, I am/was not expecting detailed wikis etc. at launch. I would just liked to have known that the mod had abandoned what I enjoyed most about SS1 for a different philosophy, before I sunk so much time into it. Like a tiny feature/gameplay focus list on the mod page or something. Or a 2min unedited video explaining that the gameplay is fundamentally changed. Or a little warning that key SS1 gameplay features are still not in the game yet, if that is the case.
And regardless of you guys providing some amazing mods for free and I am very grateful for that, I am still feel rather annoyed to have my gameplay experienced ruined this way. I spent several days of my free time researching new mods(including looking everywhere for just basic feature list of SS2) and putting together an updated modlist. And I spent 40h+ on a gameplay where I have not even freed Valentine/gone after Kellogg, to now be in a situation where I don't want to continue playing without a meaningful(to me) settlement building system, but I also don't want to have to replay 30h+ of misc. quests/mods after reinstalling with SS1. I feel so frustrated with it all right now that I might just have to give up on playing F4 right now and maybe come back again in 4-6 months...

You guys don't owe me anything, and you can do whatever you want with your mods. But as an act of just a bit of common decency and respect that people can easily invest a LOT of their (valuable) free time on your mods, amend/update your mod descriptions for SS2 to actually explain the changes. Right now the only readily available information is basically promising that SS2 is everything that SS1 was, just better. Please someone use just a few minutes on updating the mod descriptions so no-one else have to unknowingly go through what I just did...

 

[BinaryMisfit]

But if you decide to change a fundamental concept of the mod, for whatever reason, why not explain that? As I have said several times now, I am/was not expecting detailed wikis etc. at launch. I would just liked to have known that the mod had abandoned what I enjoyed most about SS1 for a different philosophy, before I sunk so much time into it. Like a tiny feature/gameplay focus list on the mod page or something. Or a 2min unedited video explaining that the gameplay is fundamentally changed. Or a little warning that key SS1 gameplay features are still not in the game yet, if that is the case.
And regardless of you guys providing some amazing mods for free and I am very grateful for that, I am still feel rather annoyed to have my gameplay experienced ruined this way. I spent several days of my free time researching new mods(including looking everywhere for just basic feature list of SS2) and putting together an updated modlist. And I spent 40h+ on a gameplay where I have not even freed Valentine/gone after Kellogg, to now be in a situation where I don't want to continue playing without a meaningful(to me) settlement building system, but I also don't want to have to replay 30h+ of misc. quests/mods after reinstalling with SS1. I feel so frustrated with it all right now that I might just have to give up on playing F4 right now and maybe come back again in 4-6 months...

You guys don't owe me anything, and you can do whatever you want with your mods. But as an act of just a bit of common decency and respect that people can easily invest a LOT of their (valuable) free time on your mods, amend/update your mod descriptions for SS2 to actually explain the changes. Right now the only readily available information is basically promising that SS2 is everything that SS1 was, just better. Please someone use just a few minutes on updating the mod descriptions so no-one else have to unknowingly go through what I just did...

You are seriously contradicting yourself. "We don't owe you anything" against "Please update it so I don't waste hours of time". Nothing stopped you from asking these questions before you started if it was that important to you. This is not the end of the world. I have spent 2000+ hours in FO4 and I keep starting over. I am on probably my 18th mod build because I play the game and like new things. You also seem to miss the point that SS2 is episodic and some of the stuff you mention might change again in future. Your continued post about this really comes across in the complete wrong light. You lost your point already. Your interpretation of better was different. SS2 has core features from SS1. It also has changed. This is to be expected in major version jumps. You also have a choice.

I suspect a lot of the members of the team wish they could say they spent 40 hours on the game to find this out rather then spending 4000 hours building it.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

I guess we'll add "you're meant to just KNOW the line 'Everything you love about the original mod' on the Nexus page means 'we took out the thing you loved' you idiot" to the list then. Between all of this "you aren't even allowed to say you might not like it" nonsense, and today's patch making my own still-in-progress Addon Pack no longer work (and be a net negative if it did), I'm edging back towards giving up on SS2 myself.

 

[BinaryMisfit]

I guess we'll add "you're meant to just KNOW the line 'Everything you love about the original mod' on the Nexus page means 'we took out the thing you loved' you idiot" to the list then. Between all of this "you aren't even allowed to say you might not like it" nonsense, and today's patch making my own still-in-progress Addon Pack no longer work (and be a net negative if it did), I'm edging back towards giving up on SS2 myself.

I am dumbstruck at how much discussion can be had about a word or a description. You realize in the time you guys are dragging this out we could have rewritten half the wiki? If you don't like SS2 you have a choice. Stick to SS1. You want to to tell me you never bought a game and then realized it wasn't for you after the description claimed it would be?

I am going to stop feeding this topic now. I think enough has been said and the sense of entitlement is always going to be there no matter how many arguments are made to point out the flaws.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

I am dumbstruck at how much discussion can be had about a word or a description. You realize in the time you guys are dragging this out we could have rewritten half the wiki? If you don't like SS2 you have a choice. Stick to SS1. You want to to tell me you never bought a game and then realized it wasn't for you after the description claimed it would be?

I am going to stop feeding this topic now. I think enough has been said and the sense of entitlement is always going to be there no matter how many arguments are made to point out the flaws.

And that attitude right there is why I am this close to giving up on the mod and these forums.

 

[Lemnear]

I gave up on SS2 weeks ago and went back to SS1.

The worst part about SS2 to me is how it intends to be a complex production managment sim in a game that never was intended for it and without giving players the tools required to play it that way.
Imagine playing Cities Skylines, but instead of having graphs and statistics breaking down how many sims are schooled, employed or unemployed you'd have to click on each house to get the stats for the household and then sum up for the entire city yourself.

Using SS2 without operating cost makes it better, however settlements all have the same general junk collection building over and over.
Still a step up from vanilla, but certainly a step down from SS1.

 

[Irealys]

I personally think it would be quite boring to have everything handed out on a silver platter.

That's because you are old.

I know what a PITA using the Creation Kit is.

That's because you tried it.

 

[rhn]

You are seriously contradicting yourself. "We don't owe you anything" against "Please update it so I don't waste hours of time". Nothing stopped you from asking these questions before you started if it was that important to you. This is not the end of the world. I have spent 2000+ hours in FO4 and I keep starting over. I am on probably my 18th mod build because I play the game and like new things. You also seem to miss the point that SS2 is episodic and some of the stuff you mention might change again in future. Your continued post about this really comes across in the complete wrong light. You lost your point already. Your interpretation of better was different. SS2 has core features from SS1. It also has changed. This is to be expected in major version jumps. You also have a choice.

I suspect a lot of the members of the team wish they could say they spent 40 hours on the game to find this out rather then spending 4000 hours building it.

Coming up on 2600h played in F4 myself, most of that using SS. I don't like having to play through the same quests over and over, which is why I alter between taking breaks to keep things fresh, and then fanatically spending hundreds of hours on single playthroughs. But lets just be clear, I have played a considerably number of playthroughs.
But that does not mean I enjoy needlessly having my time wasted, be it 1h or 40h, by something that could easily be avoided by just communicating a simple little list of major design changes between the versions. Instead it promises to be what SS1 was. I don't know about you, but I remember SS1 from the very start being a mod about building better settlements, including a better scrap collection system. And IR only built upon that. SS2 is at this stage definitely not that...
And how the $¤#& was I supposed to know that I had to trawl the unfinished wiki, come here for deeper explanation of stuff before starting to use the mod, to figure out that the main mod description is downright misleading? Heck, it took me 40h of playing the mod to even discover hints that the in-game descriptions and gameplay didn't match up. Heck, reread my initial post here, I came here for something totally unrelated. Had I not, I would have spend considerably longer in-game trying to get the industrial plots to work as advertised by the mod descriptions AND in-game tooltips.
Nothing you do now can really help my situation or frustration. But if you really do not care one bit about helping others avoid wasting their time, and you would rather be rude to me for trying to... Then... wow...

I guess we'll add "you're meant to just KNOW the line 'Everything you love about the original mod' on the Nexus page means 'we took out the thing you loved' you idiot" to the list then. Between all of this "you aren't even allowed to say you might not like it" nonsense, and today's patch making my own still-in-progress Addon Pack no longer work (and be a net negative if it did), I'm edging back towards giving up on SS2 myself.

And that attitude right there is why I am this close to giving up on the mod and these forums.

Wow, yeah what the heck happened to this community in the months since I was last playing F4? Used to be so helpful and kind. This was the first place I chose to look up when I started thinking about doing another playthrough of F4. I was just a lurker for most of the time, but used to love how people were open and welcoming towards discussions and helping others out. To this day I still use a little mini esp fix mod that someone helpful whipped up for me when I had an issue with the game and asked here about it. And trying to figure out tech trees and various secrets was such a fun collaboration.
Now we are not even allowed to ask questions about confusing and misleading game mechanics, raise legit critique about the mod, nor try to help improve the communication of key mod features, without getting pounced upon like this? Angry emote reactions, downvotes of legit posts, rude comments... WTF?

Yeah, I think I am done with this place too. At least if this kind of attitudes are the new norm...

 

[msalaba]

And trying to figure out tech trees and various secrets was such a fun collaboration.

I was lurking through most of that. Good times!