Setting up a settlement plan. What happens to the scrap from all the stuff it removes?

[rhn]

Just getting started using the settlement plans/leaders in SS2. When you set up the settlement plan and leader, and it clears the area and builds the initial town layout, what happens to the scrap from everything it removes?
Set up Starlight Drive as my first settlement plan(through the quest). After it scrapped all the cars and stuff, the workshop was practically empty. No steel or wood. Had to go grab some from other settlement just to get the initial plots to build.
Just now I set up the Sanctuary plan, having it scrap all the vanilla stuff, some stuff I built initially and all the plots from the tutorial quests. Had a look at a few of the scrap numbers in the workshop before, and they stayed the exact same after settlement was set up. Even after building the plots...

Do the scrap just vanish? Is it put into a different "buffer"? Should I manually scrap things first to conserve the components for building plots after?
Also, is there no way to get the ASAMs back when deleting placed plots?

 

[NDQ]

Also really confused about what happens if/when it fills up the Virtual Storage? If you have an overproduction one one thing(which you always will), will it just fill up the entire storage with that, not allowing other needed materials in? With the regular workshop you could at least always get rid of something you had in excess and use the caps to buy something you needed. Which makes sense too that your settlements would trade with others.

As far as I can see, once it's full, any 'excess' production is just plain wasted and disappears. It filling up with stuff you don't want and having no room left for stuff you do (like, for example, how I'm constantly out of specifically Steel and Circuitry for some reason) and there's nothing you can do about it is a pretty major concern.

You need to build the storage containers from the SS2 menu using actual resources to hold the excess virtual resources, that are only used to build and upgrade plots. What happens after all of your plots are fully upgraded? What good is virtual storage then?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

You need to build the storage containers from the SS2 menu using actual resources to hold the excess virtual resources, that are only used to build and upgrade plots. What happens after all of your plots are fully upgraded? What good is virtual storage then?

The "Conversion" and "Production" subclasses of Industrial also consume those resources, either by turning them into other ones or outright creating new items (which are then injected into the vendor lists of Commercial Plots). But those unlock SO late, and there isn't actually one to use every resource yet even including all Addon Packs as far as I've found. And even then, most of those are further locked behind another mechanic the mod barely even mentions (the "Discovery" system attached to Mark 1 Beacons)

 

[NDQ]

The "Conversion" and "Production" subclasses of Industrial also consume those resources, either by turning them into other ones or outright creating new items (which are then injected into the vendor lists of Commercial Plots). But those unlock SO late, and there isn't actually one to use every resource yet even including all Addon Packs as far as I've found. And even then, most of those are further locked behind another mechanic the mod barely even mentions (the "Discovery" system attached to Mark 1 Beacons)

I have yet to unlock Production in any of my test playthroughs but I'm usually just trying to get the same bugs other players are getting and then immediately restart once SS2s main quest is over. I haven't had a bugged quest since the launch version of Memory Lane in 10 playthroughs

I keep hitting enter thinking it posts the message

 

[NDQ]

Just getting started using the settlement plans/leaders in SS2. When you set up the settlement plan and leader, and it clears the area and builds the initial town layout, what happens to the scrap from everything it removes?
Set up Starlight Drive as my first settlement plan(through the quest). After it scrapped all the cars and stuff, the workshop was practically empty. No steel or wood. Had to go grab some from other settlement just to get the initial plots to build.
Just now I set up the Sanctuary plan, having it scrap all the vanilla stuff, some stuff I built initially and all the plots from the tutorial quests. Had a look at a few of the scrap numbers in the workshop before, and they stayed the exact same after settlement was set up. Even after building the plots...

Do the scrap just vanish? Is it put into a different "buffer"? Should I manually scrap things first to conserve the components for building plots after?
Also, is there no way to get the ASAMs back when deleting placed plots?

I always manually scrap my settlements right when I unlock the workshop, habit. I store the ASAM which brings up the options screen then select advanced and delete from there. The current city plans are only basic 1 level plans that don't upgrade. The plots do but not the settlement. And there is still only one city plan mod with only one plan in it so far unless he updated it recently

 

[BinaryMisfit]

This may not be a very well liked but I would like to leave a few thoughts with everyone here.

• The core team is small and has to manage building content, recording audio, fixing bugs, developing code and is also expected to produce detailed documentation for let it be clear, a free product in their free time?
• Multiple calls have been made to update the wiki, which by the way is exactly meant to be a crowdsource information pool, yet no one has tried to attempt to assist in updating it?
• You are under no obligation to play either SS1 or SS2, the mods are a user choice and if you don't like the mechanic of the one your welcome to try the mechanic of the second and vice versa.
• The mod although shared with the community, is the vision of it's author. In the end ultimately what the mod does is based on the vision they have based on whatever input they choose to take in.
• If you have spent all this time getting information from the forum and videos, why not take the time to update the wiki with that information and sources?

Can we please just be careful. Complaints are valid. Except I feel there is a bit of an expectation here from the core team that's not entirely valid. Every attempt is made to provide information but the SS team is not a full time development house. This is all done in their free time.

Whether intended or not I feel some of the opinions expressed inside this post comes across as you are expecting these things from a team of volunteers.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Multiple calls have been made to update the wiki, which by the way is exactly meant to be a crowdsource information pool, yet no one has tried to attempt to assist in updating it?

On the topic of the Wiki in particular; multiple people have told me I should be the one updating that, and I've always just changed the subject. Why, you ask? Because even with how much I've figured out about the mod, I still feel like I'm missing entire systems worth of functionality and don't feel confident saying my interpretation is 100% correct - hell, I only just figured out a couple more things literally within the past 6 hours, and as my other posts in this thread show, there's clearly still stuff even I haven't figured out yet whether or not that's bugged out or "working as intended but only one person on the planet actually knows the intention".

 

[BinaryMisfit]

On the topic of the Wiki in particular; multiple people have told me I should be the one updating that, and I've always just changed the subject. Why, you ask? Because even with how much I've figured out about the mod, I still feel like I'm missing entire systems worth of functionality and don't feel confident saying my interpretation is 100% correct - hell, I only just figured out a couple more things literally within the past 6 hours, and as my other posts in this thread show, there's clearly still stuff even I haven't figured out yet whether or not that's bugged out or "working as intended but only one person on the planet actually knows the intention".

Post it. Discuss it. If your wrong someone will update it. It's the purpose behind a Wiki. Incorrect information can always be edited and changed. That's way a history is kept.

It's easier for the one that knows to read and fix something then what it is for them to create from scratch.

Not directed at you specifically but my day job is filtering what can be considered excuses No ill intended.

 

[NDQ]

We are also a team of volunteers who come here to help other players based solely off our playing experience with the mod and zero inside information to give out

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Interestingly, it appears that there is provision within the background workings of the mod to allow Plots to still "work in the SS1 way" with dumping their output straight into the Workbench instead of the Virtual Storage, but most of the currently available ones don't.

 

[BinaryMisfit]

We are also a team of volunteers who come here to help other players based solely off our playing experience with the mod and zero inside information to give out

Not sure if you are disagree or agreeing with me but thanks for pointing this out. Most if not all of the effort on SS is on a volunteer basis.

 

[NDQ]

Interestingly, it appears that there is provision within the background workings of the mod to allow Plots to still "work in the SS1 way" with dumping their output straight into the Workbench instead of the Virtual Storage, but most of the currently available ones don't.

I just saw something about that in the holotape settings. Maybe you can turn it on or off?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

I just saw something about that in the holotape settings. Maybe you can turn it on or off?

Yeah, there's an option for "Building Plan Produced Items" which says it changes that, but I can't see any difference with it On or Off (although I'm not on an "endgame" level save here).

 

[rhn]

This may not be a very well liked but I would like to leave a few thoughts with everyone here.

• The core team is small and has to manage building content, recording audio, fixing bugs, developing code and is also expected to produce detailed documentation for let it be clear, a free product in their free time?
• Multiple calls have been made to update the wiki, which by the way is exactly meant to be a crowdsource information pool, yet no one has tried to attempt to assist in updating it?
• You are under no obligation to play either SS1 or SS2, the mods are a user choice and if you don't like the mechanic of the one your welcome to try the mechanic of the second and vice versa.
• The mod although shared with the community, is the vision of it's author. In the end ultimately what the mod does is based on the vision they have based on whatever input they choose to take in.
• If you have spent all this time getting information from the forum and videos, why not take the time to update the wiki with that information and sources?

Can we please just be careful. Complaints are valid. Except I feel there is a bit of an expectation here from the core team that's not entirely valid. Every attempt is made to provide information but the SS team is not a full time development house. This is all done in their free time.

Whether intended or not I feel some of the opinions expressed inside this post comes across as you are expecting these things from a team of volunteers.

I am EXTREMELY grateful to everyone involved in making so much quality content for me over the years. And they are indeed fully free to do with as they wish. If they really intentionally want to change the mod away from what SS1 was, then that's their choice. If they want to make it a Sim City style game, but where you don't actually get the taxes back to build more city with, then that's their choice. I am however baffled by the choices, and through this post tried to seek to understand it better so that I hoped to actually be able to enjoy the mod again.

However, I am rather disappointed that this, to me at least, massive change in core philosophy/game feature is not communicated anywhere. And I am not talking about a WIKI(though that's always nice to have), what about just a mention of it on the mod page/main website? A launch video explaining the new main features and departure from SS1? All there is is comparisons to SS1 and things like: "Everything you love about the original mod, with a whole lot more depth". Everything in-game is indicating that it works like normal too. There is zero mention of this hidden virtual storage. Had I not come here to ask for something seemingly unrelated and looked through the wiki subject of things I thought I already knew from SS1, I would have spent probably 40h+ more being frustrated to why I could not make my industrial plots actually produce a profit of scrap for me to build with.

I greatly enjoyed the new quests. But had I just known these things in advance, I would have invested my free time quite different.

 

[msalaba]

So, what are the actual rewards of it all? You have to sink materials into ASAMs, building and upgrading settlements and plots. You have to play a lot of tedious min-maxing with settler stats, assignment to right work plots, set up training plots and individually assign settlers to relevant ones etc. etc. For what?
They wont produce scrap for you that you can use to build/decorate settlements yourself. Wont produce food for you. Will the higher tier factories produce things like ammo or mods?
I loved the quests. They were amazing in quality and incorporation into vanilla. But from my understanding right now, the entire system is vastly inferior not only to SS1, but even vanilla "quick-and-dirty" settlements. What is the reward for all the effort of building and micro-managing settlements with SS2?

This wiki page is intended for addon pack authors but contains a lot of useful information on the industrial and commercial mechanics.

Industrial Conversion and Production Classes

Learn how these classes work, a basic explanation of the ideas and balance of the mechanics involved, and how to set up your building plans to generate the resources you want.

wiki.simsettlements2.com

I think this should answer your question.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

This wiki page is intended for addon pack authors but contains a lot of useful information on the industrial and commercial mechanics.

Industrial Conversion and Production Classes

Learn how these classes work, a basic explanation of the ideas and balance of the mechanics involved, and how to set up your building plans to generate the resources you want.

wiki.simsettlements2.com

I think this should answer your question.

I am still frustrated that reading that is all but required, since the mod itself refuses to tell you anything. I would have never found out otherwise myself, since I keep getting the "commercial plot vendors only sell twelve .38 rounds and a tato" "bug", so using what the mod shows me would have left me thinking there was literally no rewards for doing all of this.

 

[msalaba]

The core team is small and has to manage building content, recording audio, fixing bugs, developing code and is also expected to produce detailed documentation for let it be clear, a free product in their free time?

Seeing these complaints makes me laugh. I wonder how many people making these complaints played SS1 just after it released. There was no documentation, no bling videos, no user knowledge base... nothing. Just a "here's a cool mod to improve the settlement system." When IR dropped, I spent countless frustrated hours trying to figure out the unlocks and plot related quests. It was some of the most fun I've had playing FO4.

SS2 follows this tradition of "here's some cool new stuff." It is still we the players job to figure the mechanics out. I personally think it would be quite boring to have everything handed out on a silver platter. I will always carry great admiration and gratitude to the SS team for releasing this. I know what a PITA using the Creation Kit is.
/rant

 

[msalaba]

I am still frustrated that reading that is all but required, since the mod itself refuses to tell you anything. I would have never found out otherwise myself, since I keep getting the "commercial plot vendors only sell twelve .38 rounds and a tato" "bug", so using what the mod shows me would have left me thinking there was literally no rewards for doing all of this.

I honestly have been ignoring the Commercial plots as I'm still trying to figure out the core mechanics. I did build a Furniture store. I was surprised it had inventory because I have the setting for "requires ind plot production" turned on. I recently unlocked the "conversion" type for the first time recently. I guess I need beacons to expand on it.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

I honestly have been ignoring the Commercial plots as I'm still trying to figure out the core mechanics. I did build a Furniture store. I was surprised it had inventory because I have the setting for "requires ind plot production" turned on. I recently unlocked the "conversion" type for the first time recently. I guess I need beacons to expand on it.

Ive been playing on Survival, so I had to check the vendors... since Agricultural and Municipal Water plots arent reliably putting food/water into the Workbench either, and my character was getting hungry. Hence my angry posts early on in that thread (the one that KG had to lock), and why I understand the frustration others feel on this "whats in it for me" topic.

 

[msalaba]

Ive been playing on Survival, so I had to check the vendors... since Agricultural and Municipal Water plots arent reliably putting food/water into the Workbench either, and my character was getting hungry. Hence my angry posts early on in that thread (the one that KG had to lock), and why I understand the frustration others feel on this "whats in it for me" topic.

That makes sense. You would die of starvation before getting to Diamond City to buy groceries!

I had a look back at a conversation I had with Kinggath. The reason for the virtual resource system was to address performance issues with making too many calls to the vanilla workshop. In essence the virtual resource is a SS2 mirror of the workshop. There are some features and functions he wishes to add to make the mechanic work better. But, there are only so many hours in the day and we will have to wait and see what the future brings.

 

[rhn]

Seeing these complaints makes me laugh. I wonder how many people making these complaints played SS1 just after it released. There was no documentation, no bling videos, no user knowledge base... nothing. Just a "here's a cool mod to improve the settlement system." When IR dropped, I spent countless frustrated hours trying to figure out the unlocks and plot related quests. It was some of the most fun I've had playing FO4.

SS2 follows this tradition of "here's some cool new stuff." It is still we the players job to figure the mechanics out. I personally think it would be quite boring to have everything handed out on a silver platter. I will always carry great admiration and gratitude to the SS team for releasing this. I know what a PITA using the Creation Kit is.
/rant

Lets for arguments sake say that I did not also play SS1 at launch. Lets say that I was not also trying to figure out the tech trees and cross plot interactions at launch. Lets say I didn't spend countless hours trying to figure out the hidden secrets in IR, before Kinggath finally found out that it was bugged and fixed it. (If you bothered looking instead of just being insulting, you could probably have seen my contributions on the tech tree spoiler discussions, etc.)

SS1 still did the main thing it advertised itself as: It was/is a kickass "Sim City" style settlement building mod, that VASTLY improved the vanilla system. SS2 clearly markets itself as being "SS1, but better", which it clearly isn't. It seems to be more of an re-envisioning rather than upgrade. And that would be OK. They are completely free to make it whatever they want. I am now just mainly disappointed that it was not communicated in any way or form. I would equally be disappointed had I downloaded and played with any mod that told me it was an updated version of a mod I loved, but then turn out to be something completely different many hours in.