Setting up a settlement plan. What happens to the scrap from all the stuff it removes?

[rhn]

Just getting started using the settlement plans/leaders in SS2. When you set up the settlement plan and leader, and it clears the area and builds the initial town layout, what happens to the scrap from everything it removes?
Set up Starlight Drive as my first settlement plan(through the quest). After it scrapped all the cars and stuff, the workshop was practically empty. No steel or wood. Had to go grab some from other settlement just to get the initial plots to build.
Just now I set up the Sanctuary plan, having it scrap all the vanilla stuff, some stuff I built initially and all the plots from the tutorial quests. Had a look at a few of the scrap numbers in the workshop before, and they stayed the exact same after settlement was set up. Even after building the plots...

Do the scrap just vanish? Is it put into a different "buffer"? Should I manually scrap things first to conserve the components for building plots after?
Also, is there no way to get the ASAMs back when deleting placed plots?

 

[rhn]

Just found the wiki on the "Virtual storage", and I am kinda more confused now.
Does that mean that the scrap goes into the VS when you set up city plans?
Does this mean that industrial plots wont actually produce any real scrap, but just "virtual scrap" going into this inaccessible storage that is purely for plot development/maintenance? And how would I manage this VS? See what's in it, which plots/upgrades is needed etc.

 

[NDQ]

Just found the wiki on the "Virtual storage", and I am kinda more confused now.
Does that mean that the scrap goes into the VS when you set up city plans?

I usually scrap a settlement as soon as I unlock it which adds it all to the workshop. I would assume city plan scrap goes into virtual but I can't say for sure

Does this mean that industrial plots wont actually produce any real scrap, but just "virtual scrap" going into this inaccessible storage that is purely for plot development/maintenance? And how would I manage this VS? See what's in it, which plots/upgrades is needed etc.

Yes industrial plots only produce virtual scrap. To manage it you build industrial plots of whatever type of scrap you need and assign a settler with a high Strength stat to work it. To see what's in it you need to not have the settlements be automated in the holotape setting. The intermediate difficulty will allow you to see your basic scrap and the highest difficulty will show you all of your scrap by individual item. To know if a plot can be upgraded view the ASAM or the plot itself. Needs will be on the holo icons 3rd row

 

[rhn]

Yes industrial plots only produce virtual scrap. To manage it you build industrial plots of whatever type of scrap you need and assign a settler with a high Strength stat to work it. To see what's in it you need to not have the settlements be automated in the holotape setting. The intermediate difficulty will allow you to see your basic scrap and the highest difficulty will show you all of your scrap by individual item. To know if a plot can be upgraded view the ASAM or the plot itself. Needs will be on the holo icons 3rd row

So, what are the actual rewards of it all? You have to sink materials into ASAMs, building and upgrading settlements and plots. You have to play a lot of tedious min-maxing with settler stats, assignment to right work plots, set up training plots and individually assign settlers to relevant ones etc. etc. For what?
They wont produce scrap for you that you can use to build/decorate settlements yourself. Wont produce food for you. Will the higher tier factories produce things like ammo or mods?
I loved the quests. They were amazing in quality and incorporation into vanilla. But from my understanding right now, the entire system is vastly inferior not only to SS1, but even vanilla "quick-and-dirty" settlements. What is the reward for all the effort of building and micro-managing settlements with SS2?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

The "Junk" type Industrial plot, plus the Agricultural and Municipal Water types, DO produce stuff for your own use (when it works - there's something weird going on with food/water).
Everything else goes into the Virtual Storage... which Commercial Plots can then draw on for their shop inventory depending on what the Virtual Items are. This includes the Production class of Industry - it pulls materials from the Virtual Storage to operate, and its output goes into there too.

 

[NDQ]

What is the reward for all the effort of building and micro-managing settlements with SS2?

French Bulldogs, Boston Terriers, Beagles, Pugs and 1 other breed (so far). Who doesn't love dogs?

 

[rhn]

The "Junk" type Industrial plot, plus the Agricultural and Municipal Water types, DO produce stuff for your own use (when it works - there's something weird going on with food/water).
Everything else goes into the Virtual Storage... which Commercial Plots can then draw on for their shop inventory depending on what the Virtual Items are. This includes the Production class of Industry - it pulls materials from the Virtual Storage to operate, and its output goes into there too.

Wow, this is confusing. So the building plans marked [Junk Gathering] produce actual real scrap for the workshop inventory, but all the others dont?
I thought the categories were just part of some tech tree upgrade structure, each producing different groups of scrap. Each category specifically states which types of real scrap it is supposed to produce, with [Junk Gathering] being just random junk. You saying that all the other categories just produce virtual scrap? Why would I not just build all [Junk Gathering] plots and then just have it draw from the workshop inventory/donate the real scrap?
I really don't understand this new system. Are there some comprehensive guides/wikis on how this all work?

 

[rhn]

French Bulldogs, Boston Terriers, Beagles, Pugs and 1 other breed (so far). Who doesn't love dogs?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. Is that really all there is? I like dogs, but not really bothered with small "passive" pets in settlements.
I loved playing SS1 with Industrial revolution, because the time and materials I invested into the production lines rewarded me with materials/tools to build more stuff. Bigger more detailed settlements. Special themed settlements using lots of specific materials. Is SS2 departing entirely from that? Is there something I am not getting? What would motivate me into investing more time/resources into building settlements with the SS2 system now that I have finished the SS2 quests?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Wow, this is confusing. So the building plans marked [Junk Gathering] produce actual real scrap for the workshop inventory, but all the others dont?
I thought the categories were just part of some tech tree upgrade structure, each producing different groups of scrap. Each category specifically states which types of real scrap it is supposed to produce, with [Junk Gathering] being just random junk. You saying that all the other categories just produce virtual scrap? Why would I not just build all [Junk Gathering] plots and then just have it draw from the workshop inventory/donate the real scrap?
I really don't understand this new system. Are there some comprehensive guides/wikis on how this all work?

Correct, the "Junk" type ones produce the random garbage (Antique Globes, Typewriters, you know the stuff) into the Workshop you have access to, just like a vanilla Scavenging Station would - except in higher quantities, and without the 'cap' on how much the base-game never tells you the Scavenger Stations have.
You 100% CAN do it that way, if you want! It appears to me though that the ones making specific categories of Virtual Resources (Building, Organic, Mechanical, Rare) produce MORE in terms of number of total resources than the "Junk" ones do, though, I guess that's a 'balance' thing.
MOST of the old SS1:IR plots are in SS2 already; it's just that most of them are up at the Conversion or Production level of Industrial now, and even then a good percentage of them are further hidden inside of the "discovery" mechanic attached to the new Mark 1 Beacons.

Bear in mind that this is only Chapter 1; we know for a fact there's more chapters coming, with planned expansions on the mechanics - at some point SS1:Conqueror will get reintegrated, for example, and my own (unofficial) estimate is that with this new Virtual Workshop stuff, running even a small army will be hellishly expensive in terms of resources to run now.

 

[rhn]

Correct, the "Junk" type ones produce the random garbage (Antique Globes, Typewriters, you know the stuff) into the Workshop you have access to, just like a vanilla Scavenging Station would - except in higher quantities, and without the 'cap' on how much the base-game never tells you the Scavenger Stations have.

Again, that is really confusing. Ingame makes no mention of this. Not even this whole hidden "Virtual Storage".

You 100% CAN do it that way, if you want! It appears to me though that the ones making specific categories of Virtual Resources (Building, Organic, Mechanical, Rare) produce MORE in terms of number of total resources than the "Junk" ones do, though, I guess that's a 'balance' thing.

That dedicated producers produce more of that product is understandable. SS1 worked that way too. What I cannot fathom is why the materials go into an inaccessible separate pool. What I LOVE about SS1 is that it helps me build cool settlements myself, by adding shortcuts to fully decorated houses/rooms WHILE rewarding my investment of materials and time with larger quantities of the more hard to get materials for building stuff. And it did so with a really cool system that I enjoyed playing. If I understand correctly, in SS2 I would have to both manually grind materials to start up new settlements AND materials for actually doing anything not on a SS2 plot. Like building large thematic settlements using lots of specific materials (like concrete, aluminum, glass etc.) seems downright impossible now that I can no longer have dedicated factories producing those. And I would have to sit though a "Sims" game of micromanaging settlers and their stats, instead of playing a "Simcity" game about settlement building. Is that really intentional? Am I misunderstanding something completely fundamental here?

I loved the new SS2 quests. They were amazing. But after finishing them, I am now really torn right now about giving up on my ~40h playthrough, uninstall SS2 and reinstall SS1, because SS2 doesn't actually do what I loved about SS1...

 

[Deleted member 10215]

And I would have to sit though a "Sims" game of micromanaging settlers and their stats, instead of playing a "Simcity" game about settlement building. Is that really intentional?

It seems that it is intended, kinggath has multiple times said things like "the original system was TOO generous, and it made little sense in-universe for an entire state's worth of workers to be giving their output to The Player alone", which all this Virtual Storage stuff is an attempt to 'fix'.
I agree with you on the notion that the mod REALLY needs to do a better job actually explaining itself - I only know as much as I do thanks to hours (days?) worth of experimentation, reading literally everything posted on these forums, and having read/fiddled with the Addon Pack Maker's Toolkit, expecting everyone that wants to actually use the mod "how it was intended" to do that much is a bit silly.
Thankfully, SS1 is still there, but I have no idea how much further content/updating that'll get now, if any at all outside of game-breaking-bug level fixes.

 

[NDQ]

Again, that is really confusing. Ingame makes no mention of this. Not even this whole hidden "Virtual Storage".

That dedicated producers produce more of that product is understandable. SS1 worked that way too. What I cannot fathom is why the materials go into an inaccessible separate pool. What I LOVE about SS1 is that it helps me build cool settlements myself, by adding shortcuts to fully decorated houses/rooms WHILE rewarding my investment of materials and time with larger quantities of the more hard to get materials for building stuff. And it did so with a really cool system that I enjoyed playing. If I understand correctly, in SS2 I would have to both manually grind materials to start up new settlements AND materials for actually doing anything not on a SS2 plot. Like building large thematic settlements using lots of specific materials (like concrete, aluminum, glass etc.) seems downright impossible now that I can no longer have dedicated factories producing those. And I would have to sit though a "Sims" game of micromanaging settlers and their stats, instead of playing a "Simcity" game about settlement building. Is that really intentional? Am I misunderstanding something completely fundamental here?

I loved the new SS2 quests. They were amazing. But after finishing them, I am now really torn right now about giving up on my ~40h playthrough, uninstall SS2 and reinstall SS1, because SS2 doesn't actually do what I loved about SS1...

You can choose the "let the settlement run itself" option in the holotape. That eliminates the micro managing aspect. And if you use Vortex you can create a second profile and switch between SS1 and SS2 whenever you want. But yeah, go play the completed mod that has exactly what you want and wait for the 1/4 complete mod to be finished before you're disappointed in it

 

[rhn]

It seems that it is intended, kinggath has multiple times said things like "the original system was TOO generous, and it made little sense in-universe for an entire state's worth of workers to be giving their output to The Player alone", which all this Virtual Storage stuff is an attempt to 'fix'.
I agree with you on the notion that the mod REALLY needs to do a better job actually explaining itself - I only know as much as I do thanks to hours (days?) worth of experimentation, reading literally everything posted on these forums, and having read/fiddled with the Addon Pack Maker's Toolkit, expecting everyone that wants to actually use the mod "how it was intended" to do that much is a bit silly.

Ughh. Wish I had know that ahead of time. And I honestly don't understand that viewpoint... I would literally use the materials the settlers gather to improve their settlements, improve their quality of life and protect them. Is the worry that you would "steal" all the materials and what? Sell it? What would we do with the caps if not buy more mats to use for building settlements? And do people actually see the player as just instantly building huge structures on their own? I always saw it as we directed the work and settlers carried it out.
I spent days looking for any in-depth information about what SS2 was actually about, but all I could find was cryptic non-explanative launch videos and patch notes. Everything I found seemed to indicate that SS2 was a straight up continuation of SS1, but build up from the bottom for better performance etc.

You can choose the "let the settlement run itself" option in the holotape.

Would that set up the settlements so that settlers are given the right jobs and training assignments etc? Or would it just remove the requirements of it all (IMO removing the whole point of playing a "settlement building and management" mod?)?

But yeah, go play the completed mod that has exactly what you want and wait for the 1/4 complete mod to be finished before you're disappointed in it

It was pretty clear that the quest part of the mod was a WiP/episodic release, but I found no information ANYWHERE that SS2 would not even have what I consider the core mechanics of SS1. And everything I found indicated that it already had equivalents of LotC and IR included.
What I am most disappointed with is that there was ZERO information out there about any of these changes, before I sunk so many hours into it.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

I realise it's little consolation, but all of your points have been raised directly to the mod-team numerous times. Very little has been said as to what, if anything, they'll do about it outside of fixing a couple of things that nobody could even tell were bugs - the almost complete lack of actual documentation means there's still stuff we don't even KNOW whether or not it's working as intended.

 

[NDQ]

Maybe I'm confused. From what I can tell, everything you build from the SS2 menu (and maybe WRK) is taken from virtual storage, unless you do not have the resources, in which case it pulls them from the workbench or your inventory (not sure which order). Anything else you want to build from any other menu comes from the workbench and doesn't touch virtual storage ever.
Caravans only use virtual storage, provisioners only use workbench, IDEK's uses both(?) if linked to the workshop?

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Maybe I'm confused. From what I can tell, everything you build from the SS2 menu (and maybe WRK) is taken from virtual storage, unless you do not have the resources, in which case it pulls them from the workbench or your inventory (not sure which order). Anything else you want to build from any other menu comes from the workbench and doesn't touch virtual storage ever.
Caravans only use virtual storage, provisioners only use workbench, IDEK's uses both(?) if linked to the workshop?

Anything YOU build in Workshop Mode still costs regular vanilla junk resources, only the plots themselves can pull from the Virtual Storage during their construction/upgrade/vendor scripts.

 

[rhn]

Maybe I'm confused. From what I can tell, everything you build from the SS2 menu (and maybe WRK) is taken from virtual storage, unless you do not have the resources, in which case it pulls them from the workbench or your inventory (not sure which order). Anything else you want to build from any other menu comes from the workbench and doesn't touch virtual storage ever.
Caravans only use virtual storage, provisioners only use workbench, IDEK's uses both(?) if linked to the workshop?

As far as I can tell WRK pulls from the workshop inventory. And I find that its material costs are extremely unrealistic(1 wood for everything? WTF?) But not used it much yet, so not entirely sure if that can be changed.
I would also find it extremely limiting to only be able to use WRK. or boring just having to rely on settlement plans to build settlements for me. Personally use lots of workshop item mods to give enough options, such as SOE, Homemaker etc. But building with those on a large scale with more realistic costs gets extremely expensive in terms of materials, which is where SS1 really shined. It was SO cool that you through fun gameplay could incorporate the production of the materials into the actual settlements, rather than spend hours exhausting vendors, sleep to reset vendor inventory, repeat.

I realise it's little consolation, but all of your points have been raised directly to the mod-team numerous times. Very little has been said as to what, if anything, they'll do about it outside of fixing a couple of things that nobody could even tell were bugs - the almost complete lack of actual documentation means there's still stuff we don't even KNOW whether or not it's working as intended.

Hmm that's sad. Industrial Revolution was IMO the best part of SS because it allowed realistic and fun ways of gathering materials to use in building settlements. Find it baffling that they would move away from that...

 

[Deleted member 10215]

As an example of how little we actually know; I've still yet to figure out why the HUD element over on the top right there says I have 812/2000 'resources' in the Virtual Storage, but the numbers below that add up to 1086, and the few times people have tried to explain it to me have contradicted each other.

 

[rhn]

As an example of how little we actually know; I've still yet to figure out why the HUD element over on the top right there says I have 812/2000 'resources' in the Virtual Storage, but the numbers below that add up to 1086, and the few times people have tried to explain it to me have contradicted each other.

Also really confused about what happens if/when it fills up the Virtual Storage? If you have an overproduction one one thing(which you always will), will it just fill up the entire storage with that, not allowing other needed materials in? With the regular workshop you could at least always get rid of something you had in excess and use the caps to buy something you needed. Which makes sense too that your settlements would trade with others.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Also really confused about what happens if/when it fills up the Virtual Storage? If you have an overproduction one one thing(which you always will), will it just fill up the entire storage with that, not allowing other needed materials in? With the regular workshop you could at least always get rid of something you had in excess and use the caps to buy something you needed. Which makes sense too that your settlements would trade with others.

As far as I can see, once it's full, any 'excess' production is just plain wasted and disappears. It filling up with stuff you don't want and having no room left for stuff you do (like, for example, how I'm constantly out of specifically Steel and Circuitry for some reason) and there's nothing you can do about it is a pretty major concern.
I also feel like it might not actually be USING the setting you put it on for the Scrap Difficulty, just DISPLAYING that but still actually calculating by specific materials and taking the ones it wants out of the vanilla Workbench (since I am still constantly out of Aluminum for my own use no matter what I do), but it's really hard to 100% verify that.