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Bug Ressource numbers way off in the HUD
- Thread starter ceemosp
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D
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This is something a bunch of us have been documenting to try to figure out what is even going wrong (so it can be fixed) for a while now. Until my own most recent test-run I'd have said the individual component numbers (eg amount of Acid or Copper or whatever) is the correct numbers to look at, but I had a bunch of those showing as that there were a NEGATIVE amount of them in storage, so...
murarst
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If you feel like bruteforcing the amount of scrap via console to set those numbers to the correct values:
Well, I think I will start a new playthrough and revert to SS1 for a while.
I do like many features of SS2 but as long as the ressource system is as broken as it is and the issue of upgrading plots creating doubles is not solved, I will continue to run into walls at some point in the game at its present stage.
I am not sure the virtual ressources was a step in the right direction for a number of reasons.
One of them being the addition of another script layer (thus giving the game even more to ponder upon) and another is that imo it doesn't help with its intended purpose.
It takes away control over ressources from the player without actually helping in avoiding micro-management - quite contrary in fact. I spend more time going from one settlement to another, trying to keep the ressource situation in order by donating supplies than I did before and despite my efforts, I am losing this battle constantly.
This may be due to the fact of it being broken (see also the post about non-plot items still counting towards the upkeep once created - despite being removed later in time) and I have the suspicion that this problem also extends well into upgraded plots' maintenance cost being added up and never getting properly removed (lvl 1 costs + lvl2 costs after upgrade etc) since those costs start to explode exponentially.
Today I checked Tenpines and found (again and not surprising) several layers of plots, the power grid broken and myself in the middle of a huge pile of doo-doo when trying to correct this.
I do like many features of SS2 but as long as the ressource system is as broken as it is and the issue of upgrading plots creating doubles is not solved, I will continue to run into walls at some point in the game at its present stage.
I am not sure the virtual ressources was a step in the right direction for a number of reasons.
One of them being the addition of another script layer (thus giving the game even more to ponder upon) and another is that imo it doesn't help with its intended purpose.
It takes away control over ressources from the player without actually helping in avoiding micro-management - quite contrary in fact. I spend more time going from one settlement to another, trying to keep the ressource situation in order by donating supplies than I did before and despite my efforts, I am losing this battle constantly.
This may be due to the fact of it being broken (see also the post about non-plot items still counting towards the upkeep once created - despite being removed later in time) and I have the suspicion that this problem also extends well into upgraded plots' maintenance cost being added up and never getting properly removed (lvl 1 costs + lvl2 costs after upgrade etc) since those costs start to explode exponentially.
Today I checked Tenpines and found (again and not surprising) several layers of plots, the power grid broken and myself in the middle of a huge pile of doo-doo when trying to correct this.
VersusXV
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Some things to consider:
- You could try to help figure out why the resource values are ending up inaccurate. Maybe certain resources are being counted multiple times towards their category totals, maybe operating costs are not being applied to them correctly under certain circumstances, perhaps script lag can cause things to get out of sync? Or perhaps upgraded plots being counted multiple times, like Level 1 & Level 2 included somehow. Any sort of information or patterns observed that could narrow down where things are going wrong. I haven't had any luck trying to determine why the numbers end up inaccurate but I think it's possible that people who have been experiencing this for a long period of time and who are into managing all the numbers(ie doing the math on everything as they go) might be uniquely positioned among players to be able to identify the issue.
- You could try things out on Scrap or Scrap Categories instead of Scrap Components, and changing other settings related to cost for an easier experience for now. Micromanagement can be significantly reduced or even pretty much eliminated via settings if that would be preferred. You can get things similar to SS1 (but with the new features, stability & other improvements) by choosing Automated - I prefer to let it handle most settlement tasks via the Options Wizard in Tools on City Manager Holotape. I often use this for while testing my addon plots.
I see various grave issues in the present stage of sim settlements 2 - some of them actually reducing (if not entirely denying) me the fun to play.
A few of those may be connected to the ressource issues but it is hard to validate my suspicions without digging deep into the scripts and analyzing the saves vs numbers.
One that surely must have an influence on them is the issues with plots not upgrading properly. This affects most (if not all) RotC cityplans.
After having tediously cleaned up settlements, taking them down, rebulding - the whole hoopla - I am back to square one.
Almost ALL RotC plots I have built are basically stacked level versions again. Plots upgraded but did not delete the previous level versions of the plots or did add two instances of the upgraded version.
Take a peek to get an idea how it looks like:
(caravan station after upgrade) Note the two plot versions AND the number of beds - which is normally my first indication for "not again"
(again two levels of the plot on top of each other)
(here is where some of the "extra beds" originate from)
(more beds)
(looks innocent, doesn't it?)
(well....obviously not...already two unassigned plots I pay maintenance for...I spare you level 3)
(the plot next to the former ones - nope...you don't see double - they were on top of each other appearing to be one - I just moved them)
(surprise, surprise...)
(...and the show goes on...I spare you the rest of it)
Please keep in mind that I had the very same problem before at the slog, so I took the whole settlement down, cleaned everything up, rebuilt, waiting an eternity "spinning" at the settlement for the loading to finish and all looked good (at lvl 1).
This issue is present in almost all (I didn't check all settlements out of frustration) that were built using RotC city plans and were set to autoupgrade.
The ones I built manually don't seem to have those issues (fingers crossed).
This not only messes up the numbers (check the last picture - settlement values even were in the minus) but surely also affects preformance (rendered objects count, number of script call etc).
I can only assume why the upgrade isn't working as intended - most likely due to script lag.
This then only gets worse on the long run for above mentioned reasons (more plots, more calls etc pp.) since the game now has to compute double (at time TRIPLE) the number of plots.
The scripts get so bogged down that trying to do any plot operation via the asams becomes impossible. Ressources present in the workbench become "invisible" for the script, thus denying me to build or start an upgrade manually due to "lack of ressources" or because of the "is processing another operation message".
Going on with the game by doing something else will eventually give me the pop-ups much later (at times 30+ minutes later while in an enirely different cell) or I will get "plot messages" from one of the settlements I have visited before.
Those doublettes might not even get noticed if one doesn't pay attention to the numbers - the agricultural & industrial plots were neatly stacked on top of each others, so they appeared to be just one plot at first glance.
Only the housing plots that had two versions stacked and the caravan station were easily visible.
A few of those may be connected to the ressource issues but it is hard to validate my suspicions without digging deep into the scripts and analyzing the saves vs numbers.
One that surely must have an influence on them is the issues with plots not upgrading properly. This affects most (if not all) RotC cityplans.
After having tediously cleaned up settlements, taking them down, rebulding - the whole hoopla - I am back to square one.
Almost ALL RotC plots I have built are basically stacked level versions again. Plots upgraded but did not delete the previous level versions of the plots or did add two instances of the upgraded version.
Take a peek to get an idea how it looks like:
(caravan station after upgrade) Note the two plot versions AND the number of beds - which is normally my first indication for "not again"
(again two levels of the plot on top of each other)
(here is where some of the "extra beds" originate from)
(more beds)
(looks innocent, doesn't it?)
(well....obviously not...already two unassigned plots I pay maintenance for...I spare you level 3)
(the plot next to the former ones - nope...you don't see double - they were on top of each other appearing to be one - I just moved them)
(surprise, surprise...)
(...and the show goes on...I spare you the rest of it)
This issue is present in almost all (I didn't check all settlements out of frustration) that were built using RotC city plans and were set to autoupgrade.
The ones I built manually don't seem to have those issues (fingers crossed).
This not only messes up the numbers (check the last picture - settlement values even were in the minus) but surely also affects preformance (rendered objects count, number of script call etc).
I can only assume why the upgrade isn't working as intended - most likely due to script lag.
This then only gets worse on the long run for above mentioned reasons (more plots, more calls etc pp.) since the game now has to compute double (at time TRIPLE) the number of plots.
The scripts get so bogged down that trying to do any plot operation via the asams becomes impossible. Ressources present in the workbench become "invisible" for the script, thus denying me to build or start an upgrade manually due to "lack of ressources" or because of the "is processing another operation message".
Going on with the game by doing something else will eventually give me the pop-ups much later (at times 30+ minutes later while in an enirely different cell) or I will get "plot messages" from one of the settlements I have visited before.
Those doublettes might not even get noticed if one doesn't pay attention to the numbers - the agricultural & industrial plots were neatly stacked on top of each others, so they appeared to be just one plot at first glance.
Only the housing plots that had two versions stacked and the caravan station were easily visible.
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The seriousness of this seems to be coming directly from the use of the RotC plans. I haven't heard a single report of my plans or anyone else's doing this. Have you tied using anyone else's plans to see if the issue prevails there? I. Am not using ROTC plans this playthrough so I can concentrate on building solid plans that don't do these things.
VersusXV
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That seems plausible to me. It would explain why I haven't hit this, since personally I often like building my own setup and doing it a bit differently every time.
I started another playthrough (back to start from lvl86 
) and will not use RotC plans this time.
One thing I noticed already is that the ressource numbers are off from the start.
I didn't start with 0 of X but rather had an initial "stock"....magic!
When building Sanctuary (manually) I observed the following (but can't get a grip on the why the censored f-word)
) and will not use RotC plans this time.One thing I noticed already is that the ressource numbers are off from the start.
I didn't start with 0 of X but rather had an initial "stock"....magic!
When building Sanctuary (manually) I observed the following (but can't get a grip on the why the censored f-word)
- Building costs for plots are not deducted correctly. The pop-up shows costs off 25 wood, 22 steel e.g. but it only reduces the amount by some random number which is not consistent nor correct - in this case it was 17 and 18 respectively. This was happening on all plots I built.
- Maintenance costs seem to be deducted from the individual figures but not from the grand total initially.
- Grand total (all virtual ressources) immediately spiked well above the possible daily changes. I wonder if "real" ressources added/found in the workbench somehow get taken into account accidentially or if costs get added to that instead of deducted.
- From a certain point onwards Grand total gets filled up but individual numbers (wood, steel etc) do not change at all.This means your virtual storage is maxed out and there is no more room to add anything produced. Interestingly those individual numbers (added up) don't even come close to the Grand Total.
Not too likely imho since there wasn't that much going on after a fresh start, I mean there were just the "Prestonites" and Dogmeat at an empty Sanctuary to begin with.
Also it would not explain why I started with some virtual ressources in storage before I even produced any.
Same goes for the off-numbers for plot construction costs. Those should be set and fixed, so X-amount minus 25 | X-amount minus 17.
Similarily the discrpancy between the basic building materials total and the Grand total can't be explained by lag. 1 +1 = 2 not 3...no matter how long it takes to come up with a result
I just don't have the time to get into the code after a 13h workday
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D
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I hadn't even considered that (or anything like it) in my own testing. I'll add that to the docket as another variable to account for - I've never even TRIED playing with "SS2 has access to workbench" turned off.
One other thing you (or someone) may want to look into:
Assuming that the code for SS2 is written in "modules" - meaning certain functions are handled as blocks of code dealing with certain calculations - there might be a simple but nasty error when passing on the individual results for variables.
Each "modul" in itself may appear logical and correct but combined lead to an erroneous result.
Example:
[Module plot costs] results in a negative number - which looks OK and logical by itself - and results for example in -100
[Module total daily costs] deducts a certain amount from the present virtual ressource - again, OK and logical by itself.
You combine both modules and the result is not what you intended.
Example
[present virtual ressource] = 1000
[Module plot cost] = -100
Calculation
1000 -(-100)=1100
These things can happen quite easily, especially when several people contribute snippets/code parts/modules.
Been there, seen that, got the T-shirt and didn't like it
Again, without looking at the code this is just an idea of what to look for and by no means a result of my observations.
Glenthegrand
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Hello there,
i did some tests on my own and i think i found some explanation for some of the mismatches.
1) Setting: Std FO4 HUD Framework, Workshop Framework SS2, SS2Extended, MCM
2) Survival Start, no errors at startup
3) NO daily costs for plots or non plots
4) V111 -> Sanctuary -> Stranger -> Concord but NOT through Red Rocket (Dogmeat still there). Kille the baddies, brought the group to sanctuary -> built all 3 plots
5) Wait 24 hrs
6) Mismatch in numbers.....
Building materials (Aluminum Asbestos Concrete Fiberglass Glass Steel Wood)
Building mats shed has (Reports -> production) -> 10 10 10 08 14 16 25 base production
old paul has 8 str so according to this SPECIAL production there should be 10 20 20 10 13.6 40 40 added production (13.6 cut to 13)
so daily production should be 20 30 30 18 27 56 65 -> 246 YAY this is correct in my ressource panel (daily change OVERALL but wrong for daily change building mats which shows 234) AND it is correct for the single resource numbers in building materials.
BUT....Info box for the plot (Mouse over view) says ... (30 40 40 26 41 72 90) which IS 2x base production + 1x old pauls additional production -> Bug?
Next -> Building mats summaries.
Production IS 246 but Summary say 481 AND Summary of daily change says 234... Funny thing because 246 + 234 (correct daily production + wrong daily change summary) -> 480 still 1 missing (i blame 13.6 to be rounded at some point internally so 14 instead of 13 but i may be wrong).
Additionally... 246 - 234 -> 18 which is a nice coincidence because of -18 daily change for machine parts but wont explain the -4 at rare materials
Btw the -1 oil and -1 screw could be because i forgot to switch of the daily costs before i built the small generator and the beacon and the residential plot but i switched it off before i built water supplies and the other 2 plots.
This was all for Screenshot2.png
Now (while typing this) something funny happened ... building materials summary added another 234 to its number, but only to the summary not to the single resources (Screenshot3.png) or any other number.
Scriptlag? Maybe but i doubt it, no mods, no texture addons, just plain FO4 + SS2 and whats needed for it, FO4 running in backround all the time so more than half an hour idling before the additional 234 arrived
i hope it helps a little.
i did some tests on my own and i think i found some explanation for some of the mismatches.
1) Setting: Std FO4 HUD Framework, Workshop Framework SS2, SS2Extended, MCM
2) Survival Start, no errors at startup
3) NO daily costs for plots or non plots
4) V111 -> Sanctuary -> Stranger -> Concord but NOT through Red Rocket (Dogmeat still there). Kille the baddies, brought the group to sanctuary -> built all 3 plots
5) Wait 24 hrs
6) Mismatch in numbers.....
Building materials (Aluminum Asbestos Concrete Fiberglass Glass Steel Wood)
Building mats shed has (Reports -> production) -> 10 10 10 08 14 16 25 base production
old paul has 8 str so according to this SPECIAL production there should be 10 20 20 10 13.6 40 40 added production (13.6 cut to 13)
so daily production should be 20 30 30 18 27 56 65 -> 246 YAY this is correct in my ressource panel (daily change OVERALL but wrong for daily change building mats which shows 234) AND it is correct for the single resource numbers in building materials.
BUT....Info box for the plot (Mouse over view) says ... (30 40 40 26 41 72 90) which IS 2x base production + 1x old pauls additional production -> Bug?
Next -> Building mats summaries.
Production IS 246 but Summary say 481 AND Summary of daily change says 234... Funny thing because 246 + 234 (correct daily production + wrong daily change summary) -> 480 still 1 missing (i blame 13.6 to be rounded at some point internally so 14 instead of 13 but i may be wrong).
Additionally... 246 - 234 -> 18 which is a nice coincidence because of -18 daily change for machine parts but wont explain the -4 at rare materials
Btw the -1 oil and -1 screw could be because i forgot to switch of the daily costs before i built the small generator and the beacon and the residential plot but i switched it off before i built water supplies and the other 2 plots.
This was all for Screenshot2.png
Now (while typing this) something funny happened ... building materials summary added another 234 to its number, but only to the summary not to the single resources (Screenshot3.png) or any other number.
Scriptlag? Maybe but i doubt it, no mods, no texture addons, just plain FO4 + SS2 and whats needed for it, FO4 running in backround all the time so more than half an hour idling before the additional 234 arrived
i hope it helps a little.
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Currently, turning off
Non Plot Operating Costs doesn't actually turn them off. If you have placed any non plot objects that produce Defense, Power or Water, they will still consume resources. This is likely what you are seeing.
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Yeah let me tell you Machine parts. There are a couple of my settlements turrets are a must and I am eating through machine parts. However that said there is a serious issues with the resources in general. It's to long of an issue to go into. But let's just say no the numbers don't add up and don't even try to figure out why you will drive yourself crazy. But do yourself a favor and diversify your industry. Don't build a Building Materials plot at every settlement spread out the different industrial types or you will overload your network with building materials leaving nonroom for other stuff. Once Virtual storage in a settlement fills up no other materials will get produced until room is made. And operating costs are a good way to help keep space for new production. But if you don't make sure you have all your bases covered op costs will also bite you in the ass so be careful.
There is an even more grave issue Din!
I can try to diversify til kingdom come but since the total virtual ressource storage gets filled up by "ghost ressources", I am permanently running out of storage space for them.
So once they are maxed out again, my plots will no longer produce anything. I am constantly building new storage to counter that but it is a lost race from the start.
I can try to diversify til kingdom come but since the total virtual ressource storage gets filled up by "ghost ressources", I am permanently running out of storage space for them.
So once they are maxed out again, my plots will no longer produce anything. I am constantly building new storage to counter that but it is a lost race from the start.
D
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There is definitely something going wrong SOMEWHERE in those calculations, but I just dont have the time or mental energy lately to be going full ham on testing to find it. These threads are definitely giving me plenty of notes for where to start trying, though!
For what it is worth i have noticed that cityplans when starting can throw the storage values into the negatives, i assume it is due to the material cost for all parts however it has a very bad secondary effect.
Even if the local storage is in the negative and you donate materials to put it back to 0 you will not get the storage space back.
Example
the town has 0 materials in the empire storage but you start a cityplan, the city plan uses up 800 steel putting the cityplan at -800 steel
the Hud will show it as -800/0 in construction materials.
You cannot donate 800 steel into the empire storage because it has 0 storage, so you build a 1k storage unit and the hud reads
-800/1000
Now you donate 800 steel to put it at 0 but the hud will show total storage is 800/1000 yet you will have 0 materials in storage.
Further i have noticed that if a material is in the negative the plots using the material will stop producing yet will continue to use materials that are in the negative value, thus it will make the negative storage eat up more and more storage space and you will have to buil more containers whose job is to just hold the negative materials that you have to donate, they will never hold any surplus.
Even if the local storage is in the negative and you donate materials to put it back to 0 you will not get the storage space back.
Example
the town has 0 materials in the empire storage but you start a cityplan, the city plan uses up 800 steel putting the cityplan at -800 steel
the Hud will show it as -800/0 in construction materials.
You cannot donate 800 steel into the empire storage because it has 0 storage, so you build a 1k storage unit and the hud reads
-800/1000
Now you donate 800 steel to put it at 0 but the hud will show total storage is 800/1000 yet you will have 0 materials in storage.
Further i have noticed that if a material is in the negative the plots using the material will stop producing yet will continue to use materials that are in the negative value, thus it will make the negative storage eat up more and more storage space and you will have to buil more containers whose job is to just hold the negative materials that you have to donate, they will never hold any surplus.
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I am finding that I can get things out of the negative. And with plot costs turned on it is helping deplete VS resources so new ones can fill up. It's taken me a good 2 24 hr+ jam seasons but I think I have my For The Minutemen city plans working right. Again it's because I actually took the time to sit and see what was getting eaten by what plots in each settlement and then make sure the network was making enough to handle daily needs and create enough surplus to allow cps to still level.