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Public Beta 1.0.9b with RotC Fixes

In the mod list in question - there are several very cool, yet very far reaching mods.
Unfortunately, I am not surprised at all there there is an issue with a combination of effects with a mod as advanced as SS2.
(seriously - that reads like a list of some of the coolest story enhancement mods on my list of "want to try this but worried about too many conflicts with my other cool mods").
It took me quite a few attempts to get everything working as I wanted, and I'm not even sure it is actually working, cause I never made to the end of the main questline, because I decided to add a new mods that breaks everything and have to start all over again :D

BTW, I sign bellow everything you said.

Now, to figure out where the heck I left preston....

Have you checked the Third Rail? Cough him eyeing Magnolia more than once..... just saying....
 
In situations such as this I like to work with facts and logic to reach an educated guess:
1. UFO4P contains a huge amont of bug fixes (changelog here) all with references of how and when they were discoverd (bug tracker here) made by the Unofficial Patch Project Team with Arthmoor being amongst them, a man who has more than 10 years of experience in modding Bethesda games. He's also behind the Skyrim UFP, a mod with 7.7m downloads. I have yet to see a modding guide anywhere not including it so it's safe to assume it's being used on every recent modded skyrim. Even so, they are human, and humans make mistakes but considering this, their knowledge and dedication can't be denied.
2. The mod's page claims:
  • No unsafe changes (such as deletions of stock objects).
  • Designed to be compatible with as many other mods as possible.
3. SS2 and UFO4P are both complex mods. I'm no modder, but I am sure you need some serious skill to make them play well together, which kinggath demonstrated has plenty of. He 100% thought of this and made it work. Only problem is, most people don't just have SS2 and UFO4P. They have dozens or hundreds of mods interacting in an already infamous limited engine so finding or fixing issues can get quite frustrating for the player (speaking from experience) and maybe impossible for the mod authors.
Given this, I don't think UFO4P on its own can be considered a bad mod to use along SS2.
 
Thanks in advance.
As for the UFO4P I won't go beyond saying it is something with my setup. As I mentioned, it's one of the most endorsed mods in nexus, and as some1 else mentioned, their experience and capabilities were/are never being put in question.

In the tests I did and reported on this thread, I started with a save with only the 1.09b installed (as it had the requirement in it) and slowly enabled the mods I had on my profile. The only one that caused things to behavior weird (duplicated objects in this case) it was UFO4P, but this might be because, and not in any specific order:
  • loading order
  • other mods I had on when I activated it
  • my weird hardware setup which is half way into an upgrade (RTX 2070, 32gb ram and a crappy i5-6600k)
  • Hell, might even be the fact that it's been like 4 years since I did a clean windows installation
  • Might be regedit garbage I have somewhere doing stupid things
  • If you are using NMM, even installation order matters, because of the overrides of files
I'm far from a specialist on this, but the bottom of the line I think it is , if you don't have problems with UFO4P you probably should keep using it.

I'm a scientist (IA researcher) so I work with facts and testable scenarios and the only think I can say with 100% sure is that with my installation order, load order and mod list, UFO4P is causing problems with SS2.

Just one more time, this is my load order. The ones without the * are not being loaded. I hope I could help you somehow.

*HUDFramework.esm
*ArmorKeywords.esm
*XDI.esm
*NPCScaling.esm
*Gunners Overhaul 1.1.esm
*CROSS_VertibirdFlightsuit.esl
*CROSS_Wasteland_Ronin.esl
*CWRaiders.esl
*CROSS_CosmeticFramework.esm
*WorkshopFramework.esm
*SS2.esm
*TheMarshland.esm
*Geckos.esl
*Mantis.esl
*DamageThresholdFramework.esm
*DDLL.esl
*Loot Detector.esl
*IDEKsLogisticsStation2.esl
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
*SwansBarAndPitstop.esl
*SS2_XDI Patch.esp
*Fallout 4 NPC Scaling and Enemy Buff 1.0.esp
*CleanMySettlement.esp
*PiperCaitCurieDialogueOverhaul.esp
*Phase4DLC.esp
*M8r_Item_Tags_Vanilla_EN.esp
*ENBLightsHDRPatch.esp
*MutilatedDeadBodies.esp
*subwayrunnnerdynamiclighting.esp
*CROSS_PlasRail.esp
*OutcastsAndRemnants.esp
*CrimeTown.esp
*Depravity.esp
*CombatZoneRestored.esp
*TrainBar.esp
*America Rising - A Tale of the Enclave.esp
*BetterOpenSeason.esp
*More Armor Slots.esp
*Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
*RaiderOverhaul.esp
*The Deadly Commonwealth Expansion.esp
*Vault4.esp
*RecruitableSettlers.esp
*W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
*Enclave Paint DLC.esp
*DCGuard_Overhaul.esp
*OldTimeReligion.esp
*PlaneWreck.esp
*TU3SD4Y'S Commonwealth Responders.esp
*InstituteSettlements2.esp
*AA 50 Ways To Die.esp
*walkers.esp
*RecruitableSettlersFH.esp
*D.E.C.A.Y.esp
*SS2_FDK_TinyLiving.esp
*ProjectValkyrie.esp
*CROSS_MojaveManhunter.esp
*LAER.esp
*F4NVServiceRifleRedux.esp
*SS2HappyTrails.esp
*Rangergearnew.esp
*WattzLaserGun.esp
*SwanPond - Settlement.esp
*CHAOTIC SUN.esp
*SS2_BleachersDCStory_Patch.esp
*More Armor Slots - Far Harbor.esp
*CF_AtomicWarlord.esp
*Combat_Helmet_Illumination 1.2.esp
*CROSS_Techmask.esp
*CROSS_Cybernetics.esp
*CROSS_2077.esp
*CROSS_CoA.esp
*CROSS_InstituteExpeditionarySuit.esp
*SS2WastelandVenturers.esp
*Enclave_Operator.esp
*Gunner_Operator.esp
*TacticalHuman.esp
*Nexus_PMC.esp
*PMC_extended.esp
*PMC_extended_lore.esp
*Fixed Alpha Map.esp
*Quieter Settlements - Contraptions.esp
*Quieter Settlements - Vanilla.esp
*Quieter Settlements - Wasteland Workshop.esp
*CROSS_Uni_Scarf.esp
*MinutemenPropaganda.esp
*EvilViking13_MinutemenMorale.esp
*CBBE.esp
*CBBEHeadRearFix.esp
*WestTekTacticalOptics.esp
*spacefiddle_Follower-Stealth-Distance-Fixes.esp
*CraftingFramework.esp
*CraftingFrameworkAWKCR2.esp
*CraftingFramework_ChipLoot.esp
*CraftingFramework_LME.esp
*CraftingFramework_MLM.esp
*BOS.Fences.esp
*ohSIM_Sim2_Settlements_Scrappers_Addon.esp
*WET.esp
*BOS1 (hardcore).esp
*CROSS_BrotherhoodRecon.esp
*Easy Lockpick and Harck.esp
*XP From Companion Kills.esp
*NPCScaling_BB.esp
*More Armor Slots - Automatron.esp
*More Armor Slots - Nuka World.esp
*More Armor Slots - Vault-Tec Workshop.esp
*NoAffinityCooldown.esp
*TheyWantTheD.esp
*SeasonWantTheD.esp
*QuickTrade.esp
*dD-Action Ragdoll Force.esp
*RAW INPUT.esp
*FO4 Seasons - Autumn - AllDLC.esp
*Synths Revamped.esp
*Insignificant Object Remover.esp
*PIP-Pad.esp
*IDEKsLogisticsStation2_SS2_Patch.esp
*SimSettlements2_AddOnPack_ApocalypticAdditions_SirLach.esp
*JunkTown-FENCES2.esp
*RecruitableSettlersLeaders2.esp
*SS2_ruined_simsettlement_addonpack.esp
*SS2Extended.esp
*SS2WalledGardensAndMore.esp
*SS2WhisperPowerPlots.esp
*M8rDisablePipboyEffects.esp
*GCM.esp
*EPO.esp
*waterLODfix.esp
*AK74M.esp
*RU556.esp
*EnclaveUniform.esp
*MilitarizedMinutemen.esp
*MilitarisedMinutemen_PatchesAddon.esp
*FieldScribeBackpack.esp
*WATM-MM-MMUPAIA_CustomPatch.esp
*SS2-Jampads2.esp
*JunkTownTwo.esp
*Cho1-Workshop-Framework-stuff.esp
*[SS2 Addon] SimSettlements SuperStructures.esp
*SS2-PraRandomAddon.esp
*AK400.esp
*Archimedes-II.esp
*CROSS_Blades.esp
*CROSS_CryoLance.esp
*CROSS_RugerMkV.esp
*Extended weapon mods.esp
*SCAR-L.esp
*P90.esp
*P90NPC.esp
*MP7.esp
*Krebs.esp
*KrissVector.esp
*MWM4.esp
*Quad_RAWLauncher.esp
*ReconPack.esp
*AimpointForDSR.esp
*CROSS_BreakActionLaser.esp
*CROSS_CourserStrigidae.esp
*Look At Me IE.esp
*Institute Overhaul.esp
*DTFOptionalPlugin.esp
*L96A1.esp
*GIAT_FAMAS.esp
*G36Complex.esp
*HK_MP5.esp
*HK_UMP.esp
*M1A.esp
*AUG-A1.esp
*XM2010_SniperRifle_by_tooun.esp
*AKeVolk.esp
*BossChestsHaveLegendaries.esp
*3dscopes-replacer.esp
*Live Dismemberment - POSTAL.esp
Live Dismemberment - Brutal.esp
Live Dismemberment - Insane-o.esp
Live Dismemberment - Liebermode.esp
Live Dismemberment - Regular.esp
*BZW_Planet_Explorer.esp
*SS2_CityPlanPack_RiseOfTheCommonwealth.esp
*Armorsmith Extended.esp
*Synth Overhaul.esp
*Synth Overhaul - Black Patch.esp
*Synth Overhaul - No level requirements Patch.esp
*TDCE + AE + Raider Overhaul Patch.esp
*Crimsomrider's Accessories.esp
*NukaRadBans.esp
*Far West Minutemen.esp
*SuperMutantRedux.esp
*SuperMutantRedux_ArmorSmithExtended.esp
*StartMeUp.esp
*Perks, companions and items massive overhaul.esp
Thanks a lot, bud!

Now, I think about that: what's up with uninstall UFO4P? Really broke the game as the authors claim? If I don't misunderstood the info in Nexus, the fact of uninstall the patch make an irreversible mess and go back on it can't fix that. Or you make the test in a fresh game?
 
Thanks a lot, bud!

Now, I think about that: what's up with uninstall UFO4P? Really broke the game as the authors claim? If I don't misunderstood the info in Nexus, the fact of uninstall the patch make an irreversible mess and go back on it can't fix that. Or you make the test in a fresh game?
Just to clarify, I never had it installed in this save. I did a hard save, exit the game, loaded few mods and did few tests, then leave the game, activated a few more mods and go back to the "clean" hard save.

So, sorry, I can neither confirm or deny that uninstalling it will break your save. But everything points to yes, it will break you save.
 
I make this post with the utmost respect and sincerity...

This thread is feeling like it is getting off course.

It is not always UFO4P, or any other one mod.
It is almost always a combination of mods. The more mods a person has, the greater the chance.
However, even more so, the more extensive and far reaching any of those mods have, the greater the chance.

Anyone who looks a more than a handful of mods in xEedit can see this effect very quickly (and be terrified of the implications of a it to their game).

I remember once there was an issue with a combo of three mods, and a transfersettlements profile - because of the mods the person had who made the transfer.
(so not only do you need to worry about your mods - but sometimes - the mods of the person who wrote the mod).

Another time there was an "issue" with one of my mods - and it turned out it was an interactions between three mods.
None of them were bad, it just worked out that way.

There are more than likely hundreds if not thousands of posts both lauding and vilifying the unofficial patch.
The reason - it is a very complex and far reaching mod.

In the mod list in question - there are several very cool, yet very far reaching mods.
Unfortunately, I am not surprised at all there there is an issue with a combination of effects with a mod as advanced as SS2.
(seriously - that reads like a list of some of the coolest story enhancement mods on my list of "want to try this but worried about too many conflicts with my other cool mods").

I have helped literally over 150 people with CTD and other issues on the reddit mods forums - it almost always comes down to mod interactions - and very rarely actual any single specific mod (I used to post such similar advice - that I finally kept a copy and past version - then I put a counter in it) .

There are tons of people (including me - with over 270 mods) who use the unofficial patch and SS2 and do not have the issues described.
Clearly this is a multi mod interaction issue.

I have a separate mo2 portable instance set up just for testing and mod development (yes, I know, I can do it with profiles - but I like to keep things 100% isolated and I find this easier for me).
This allows for discreate testing of mod interactions - and something like that might be necessary.

We must be careful about dog piling on it - as folks who may underestimate the complexities - may make decisions that have even further unintended consequences.

So, in conclusion - the focus should not be on "Mod x is bad" or what not - it should be "hey there is a weird interaction between mod X Y and Z, and I am trying to figure out what this is". In this example - clearly UFO4P is one of those mods in the equation - now to find the others...
And that my friends - is a really messy task.

Now, to figure out where the heck I left preston....
Excelent, thanks!
 
I use UFO4P in all my testing, I have a great relationship with Arthmoor, and while I know some people have had issues with the Unofficial mods in the past, their team genuinely knows what they are doing, they also are willing to make changes if I find something problematic in UFO4P.

UFO4P is like Sim Settlements in that it is a perpetually worked on mod, it has non-stop support, and people actively engaged in improving it every day. Of course, this is a double-edged sword, when you have a constantly updated, complex mod, you are just as likely to introduce bugs along the way while you fix others. Still, I would rather put my game's fate in the hands of passionate people, committed to the long-haul than people who picked it up as a one-off hobby and moved on.

A very large number of mods out there are problematic, in that they edit things without understanding the repercussions, or include vanilla files they shouldn't, due to the way the Creation Kit aggressively packages files. Since UFO4P by its nature must edit vanilla files, there are infinite potentials for conflicts, so if you are using a large load order, chances are high you are going to run into some of these issues.

On my Let's Plays, where I basically installed mods on audience recommendation with minimal vetting on quality, I still had virtually no problems with UFO4P and I was up in the 300+ mod range. The actual mods that caused most of my issues were world altering mods, such as South of the Sea, and little innocuous mods that unintentionally included vanilla scripts or loose files.

It will never be a requirement, but I do recommend UFO4P because I know it's a very useful mod for the majority of users who don't play with monster load orders.
 
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I got 200 mods for years, and the UFO4P besides Fo4FI let me play smoothest than ever, even in high quality graphics, only with 8G of graphic card, and that's worth everything sacrifice, cause personally, I hate stuttering.
 
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