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Patch 2.0.1 - Industrial Aftermath

Cybelemoon said:
We I do have the "inspection before upgrading" [or whatever it's called] turned off, and it is not happening with my other settlement that has lots of people and they tend to stay very well balanced. The Sanctuary was the first place I placed any plots, but I'm to double check and see what has happened since I've been out of town, since I did finally get a few residential plots that upgrading of the refresh... a few finally have doors. Crap, I probably should turn off the beacon on my other town. 0.O
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Are they Original plot size? And do you have "Use Original Plot Size" off?

I had an issue with Murkwater refusing to upgrade. Built it in 1.1.2, then stopped playing. When I returned at 1.1.6, I set Use Original Plot size = Off. My other settlements upgraded fine, but Murk refused. Max bars, 85 happiness, regular visits. Yet plots stuck at level 1 and 2.

I also discovered some 1.1.2 plots with level 1 or 2 art - yet producing level 3 output! Very strange.

I ended up demolishing Murk, and rebuilding along Industrial Rev lines. I hope the reset works!
 
Keyword, "sane" I basically built the slums and well am still adding on. I wish there was a way to place platforms above already set plots to stack them. LOL Then I could be a true slum lord. But yes, I see your point. Strangely the other settlement doesn't have much for entertainment really but they seem to be doing great. My Sanctuary build is a bit "tight" on space in places and has a LOT of pull due to objects in builds. (Which really sucks!) Not sure how some people manage to build the way they do because I have only a fraction of what some have and well, there are areas I can barely walk thru without the game trying to crash. Thanks for the info tho, I will keep that in mind when revamping things. PS] Is there a way to transfer a building from one game to another?
 
kinggath said:
Here's a cheat sheet: https://simsettlements.com/web/wiki/index.php?title=Breakdown

Also, @tankthing - the scripted object limitation was removed by one of the first major FO4 patches. I've done tests without over 9000 scripted objects in a settlement and they work! (slow, but they work)
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Thanks for that! I'll be printing that puppy out in just a few secs. (I'm like Dory the fish, my memory is well ... what was I saying? I had brain surgery to remove a tumor and was gifted that lovely little gem.
 
Lystraeus said:
Are they Original plot size? And do you have "Use Original Plot Size" off?

I had an issue with Murkwater refusing to upgrade. Built it in 1.1.2, then stopped playing. When I returned at 1.1.6, I set Use Original Plot size = Off. My other settlements upgraded fine, but Murk refused. Max bars, 85 happiness, regular visits. Yet plots stuck at level 1 and 2.

I also discovered some 1.1.2 plots with level 1 or 2 art - yet producing level 3 output! Very strange.

I ended up demolishing Murk, and rebuilding along Industrial Rev lines. I hope the reset works!
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Mine are current plot sizes. Didn't have the mod until recently.
 
@kinggath
I still get issues with settlers standing around (depends on the settlement, some appear to be less impacted than others), then I "lose" a couple to "friendly fire" and/or bulldoze a couple of plots and it all starts working again. :)

You raise a good point with the patch, but too many things load scripted objects into arrays and it's actually those that I think are breaking down and getting things lost over time. I flat out don't know how to troubleshoot papyrus but it's my working theory based on breaking things until I accidently fix them until something better comes along. At worst, I learn a little about debugging the game so, at least in this case, the journey towards a solution is just as valuable as having the solution.. This has all the hallmarks of a second order disconnect somewhere and once I learn the shape of it, I can publish and start helping with the solution.

I had a happy and more or less semi-functional Sanctuary at around 112 settlers with almost 200 Sim Settlements plots in it. That's why I've remarked so many times about how tight the codebase is for SS. I've seen it do things in game that would take me literally years to lay out and build myself and which would utterly cause my computer to embarrass itself mightily.

I cut it back to 70 settlers and again to 50 because the whole thing just stopped working about 2 weeks before 2.0 dropped. I think that Sanctuary instance tore a hole in the space time continuum because it still won't allow scrapping without a CTD. On your advice I have played around a lot with my load order (ultimately finding out the hard way that the OCDecorator vending machine needs to load AFTER OCDecorator for realsies) and fought with it until the game and I have an understanding, I don't scrap anything in Sanctuary and it doesn't ctd too often. I disable/markfordelete instead.

Right now I'm trying to figure out why none of my shiny new far harbor settlements have gotten any settlers in over 10 hours of playtime. I got the two at Dalton that I started with and a powered Beacon working. No other settlements in Far Harbor have been touched so far and still nothing. The only thing I can think of is that its over some limit somewhere or I managed to get my scripting stuck again so I'll load up resaver when I get home and see what scripts are running.

I've got a few other avenues to look down as well so I'll go down as many paths as possible and see if something works, then note what I did to get there so others can follow.

This issue is unlikely to be traceable back to Sim Settlements but anything you can throw out there for ideas of avenues to look down would be very welcome. I've already questioned in detail what has changed and I can't find anything, which means I need to know more places to look.

TLDR; Actor scripts are likely to still be an indirect second order issue and I still have much to learn.
 
Over 100 settlers is super impressive- surprised your save survived!

Are you using mytigio's Industrial City? He's been toying with the Radio Beacons lately, maybe you have one of his radio plots and perhaps it requires special handling?

Beyond that, the best thing I can think to try is disabling all of your mods, then go sleep a few days and see if those settlements pick up settlers. That will tell you if you need to continue hunting through your mods.

You could also check your save in Fallrim Tools, if your workshop parent script is stuck in a loop, no new settlers will come.
 
I'll see if that version of Sanctuary still exists in my save list. I'm a pack rat so it very well might.

I suspect the radio plot coupled with a save best described as needing a rubber room is exactly what happened to me. Sanctuary (of course) is the town with the radio plot. If you're interested in seeing just how broken things got, I'll upload the save but I'm only keeping it around because I had a pretty cool version of LOTR's Bag End built as a conquest settlement in a gully that I will eventually get Transfer Settlements to export. (0 happiness bugged of course because I can't just have one problem in a save)

I just restarted a new game and will play both in parallel as the mood takes me. So far in 5 hours of playtime in the new game I've had exactly 0 CTDs and no problems scrapping anything in Sanctuary. I have the most fun messing with the settlements anyway so it's not really a big loss. I get the benefit of all new settlement designs AND I can finally build that volcano lair on the island I have been wanting without having to uproot 50 people to do it.

I'm going to do my best to leave the mod list alone (SOOOO difficult) and get an actual full playthrough done for the first time. I was in Far Harbor before the CTDs got too bad and settlers stopped showing up.

I'm going to miss the cows from Nordhagen though, I kind of got used to the constant mooing when I visited.
 
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What are the general guideline for plots?

Ie. Do I need one farm plot for every x others?
Whenever I have a residential plot I need either a farm plot, industrial plot or commercial plot? Or maybe I need exactly one of each plot each time I have a residential plot?
 
There's a fairly tuned balance that you'll need to fine tune on your own. I generally start with 5 of each plot type with 20-25 residential and backfill as the plots grow out and dynamic needs kick in - some plots reduce the amount of x resource by n amount and they do it by removing the resource available before it ever gets to the workshop. That's how you get packed 30+ settler settlements with 10 agricultural plots and 12 food available to your settlers. The solution is to either turn off dynamic needs or (the way I chose to go) tweak the settlements as they grow. If you are at settler cap, bulldoze a couple of industrial plots and watch your available food skyrocket.

I think @kinggath 's intent is to let us each find our own balance based on the way we want our settlements to end up looking and the tweaking gives us another reason to return to our settlements after we set them up. Sometimes its a little bit of a pain because I don't think the balance is quite right yet - I shouldn't need half my citizens on agricultural duty in some places after I hit a certain tech level, but finding the dynamic balance for the point in time and then tweaking it as it changes is part of the fun for me, so I'm not going to gripe too loudly because as a whole I enjoy that mechanic.
 
tankthing said:
There's a fairly tuned balance that you'll need to fine tune on your own. I generally start with 5 of each plot type with 20-25 residential and backfill as the plots grow out and dynamic needs kick in - some plots reduce the amount of x resource by n amount and they do it by removing the resource available before it ever gets to the workshop. That's how you get packed 30+ settler settlements with 10 agricultural plots and 12 food available to your settlers. The solution is to either turn off dynamic needs or (the way I chose to go) tweak the settlements as they grow. If you are at settler cap, bulldoze a couple of industrial plots and watch your available food skyrocket.

I think @kinggath 's intent is to let us each find our own balance based on the way we want our settlements to end up looking and the tweaking gives us another reason to return to our settlements after we set them up. Sometimes its a little bit of a pain because I don't think the balance is quite right yet - I shouldn't need half my citizens on agricultural duty in some places after I hit a certain tech level, but finding the dynamic balance for the point in time and then tweaking it as it changes is part of the fun for me, so I'm not going to gripe too loudly because as a whole I enjoy that mechanic.
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Ok, thanks. I might turn off dynamic needs. I have mods installed that specifically allow me to not have to return to babysit settlements :) ie. A mod that will allow a proper defended settlement to take care of raiders on their own
 
Please note, your mileage will vary. You need 20 charisma to get your settlements up to 30 settlers and it's safe to assume that anything I've done in-game has broken the save to the point where it will start raining cows at some point.

I've not speaking figuratively there. Ever seen what happens when the scripts get lagged and all the provisioners start spawning in all at once in a settlement? They spawn at just above the settlement height cap and then drop straight down so as to not get trapped inside of anything when they spawn so when things go sideways and scripts start lagging, the game rains cows. This is also how cows end up on roofs or top levels of Lighthouse megastructures that don't have pathing big enough to fit them.
 
@cbm Which mod are you using to let the settlements take care of themselves? The only one I know of uses script edits that are so dangerous that even I wouldn't use them.

There's also one out there that sets max delay time to something like a year so the settlement will always wait as long as it takes for you to show up when an attack is pending, but that's not the same thing.
 
kinggath said:
Always overwrite, never uninstall. If you're using NMM, after you install and overwrite the new version, you can delete the previous entry in NMM.
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Uh oh.. I uninstall older ones, then activate the updates.. how does that f up things, and is there anything I can do about it after all this time?
 
tankthing said:
@cbm Which mod are you using to let the settlements take care of themselves? The only one I know of uses script edits that are so dangerous that even I wouldn't use them.

There's also one out there that sets max delay time to something like a year so the settlement will always wait as long as it takes for you to show up when an attack is pending, but that's not the same thing.
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I use one that modifies the chance a settlement has to defend itself based on the settlement defence rating ie. a settlement with a high defence rating defends itself and marks the defend settlement quest as solved
Sometimes it just tells me that settlement this or that defended itself from a raid.. can't remember the name currently.... .but it works just fine even with sim settlements
 
I'm seeing BS Defense: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20137/?
Modifies workshopattackscript. Problem with that is when the game updates, it'll break stuff. Badly.

I was very excited to discover this one until I read that because it'd save me a lot of time and I wouldn't need to go as turret happy or break away from what I'm doing in the game constantly.

It boggles my mind that a fully turreted and walled settlement can literally lose to a single attacking raider out in the open if you're not there. My guards tend to have gatling lasers so if I am there, the raider is goo in exactly as long as it takes for 5-10 gats to spin up, if I'm not, significant chance to lose.
 
tankthing said:
I'm seeing BS Defense: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20137/?
Modifies workshopattackscript. Problem with that is when the game updates, it'll break stuff. Badly.

I was very excited to discover this one until I read that because it'd save me a lot of time and I wouldn't need to go as turret happy or break away from what I'm doing in the game constantly.

It boggles my mind that a fully turreted and walled settlement can literally lose to a single attacking raider out in the open if you're not there. My guards tend to have gatling lasers so if I am there, the raider is goo in exactly as long as it takes for 5-10 gats to spin up, if I'm not, significant chance to lose.
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Updates as in when Bethesda updates the game?

I thought of that and I only play fallout 4 when my gaming rig is offline and the game is set to only update when played... but since its always played offline then Im safe.. Ive had numerous mind numming problems (several months of frustration and no play time) before because of Bethesda updates

At any rate I would expect fallout 4 to be too old now to still be updated by Bethesda?
 
I dunno, I got a quick update to something from Steam about a week and a half ago. I don't know what it was, it was just a small flash when I started it going through steam instead of F4SE
 
BurntHostage said:
Uh oh.. I uninstall older ones, then activate the updates.. how does that f up things, and is there anything I can do about it after all this time?
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As long as you don't load your save in between, it's OK to do it in either order.
 
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