Suggestion Making the Conqueror experience better...

Discussion in 'Conqueror (Mod Suggestions Here)' started by Sterga, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Sterga

    Sterga New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    5

    ... especially for new players.

    Remove Workers:
    I'm not sure why this job even exists. It adds some micromanagy BS which I thought was the opposite goal of Sim Settlements and makes the new player experience more awful. Just looking around the forums, it seems other people are having problems with Workers thanks to the auto-job enabled by default.

    The solution to auto-assign shouldn't be "turn this mess off" otherwise, why even have this function. Without Workers existing, auto-assign goes to being fantastic or at least useful.

    Plus, it makes learning how to Conqueror easier if things just work. It probably doesn't take much to figure out raising the caps bar can be done by dropping down commercial plots... Not really sure if the bullet bar is a good indicator for industrial plots. BUT if someone is new and experimenting, they'll probably be able to figure it out by simply dumping down different plots how to raise that bar.

    Gimping a new players by stealing their Warriors seems counter-productive. It's not like you can use Workers in Vassals and I thought the goal was to have Outposts be more of a military base with Vassals doing the farm / commercial / industry support. There are already four options for those other plots (or two for Liberators).

    Not having Workers also saves on settlement size. You already need to have something for Warriors to be assigned on since the default max unemployed is three. That's already 12 plots just for Warriors before martial plot needs and whatever you would assign a Worker to. If you wanted to use residential plots as well...

    Multi-Warrior plot:
    I don't know / care what kind of plot this would be, just something where I could assign five Warriors to one plot for jobs. Something to save space on settlement size and if I lose a bunch of Warriors, doesn't cripple my gang too badly with the sudden employee reduction.

    Patrol mats:
    Like the guard mats in the base game, coupled with auto-assign, this would make dealing with / learning to patrol a more pleasant experience for players. How it could work: Drop down a mat for whatever settlement you want your recruit to patrol and it magically happens. I.E. you are in Sanctuary and drop down a mat "To Abernathy" and the recruit automagically patrols between Sanctuary and Abernathy. Probably doesn't need to be a mat. Could be street signs or cork-boards. Bonus: I don't have to be annoyed by multiple, sometimes slow-ass, popup menus.

    Conqueror HUD and Plot Preview tweaks:
    Colors would be based on the plot type. Bullet bar would be yellow, Farm bar would be red(?), and Caps bar would be blue. Add the HUD icons to the plot preview. (Bullet to industrial, caps to commercial, whatever the farm icon is to agriculture.) These are just little hints at what people should be building to fill up the bars without having to look it up.
     
    bullyrook likes this.
  2. Rites

    Rites Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    218

    The idea behind roles is to have the ability to make adjustments to your crew as needed. Warriors of course are your primary attackers, but if for some reason you need to fill a gap in resources, you change a few to workers since they will produce more than warriors will. And even if not mentioned, you change the role of a few warriors to guards to fill a gap in defense without having to spam a bunch of turrets. Which since using conqueror I've used much less than I did previously.

    There is a big difference between auto assign and auto change roles. I don't think it's that much of a hassle to turn anything off or on in settings.

    I don't think it is even possible to assign more than 1 settler/warrior to 1 object. And a plot is considered an object.
     
    AxeloftheKey likes this.
  3. Phil_T_Casual

    Phil_T_Casual Well-Known Member Community Rockstar

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2018
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    1,639

    Need the worker role so you can have crew work commercial plots and not get pulled into the pool when raiding. Having captives work commercial plots would be OP.

    You can assign workers in vassals.

    You can download patrol mats/route mods.

    The bars are called Wages, Rations, Equipment, if that is not self explanatory what plots correlate to these then I don't know what to say to you.
     
    AxeloftheKey and Rites like this.
  4. bullyrook

    bullyrook Well-Known Member Community Rockstar

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    947

    First off, you are coming in hot. At least, that's how it sounds to me. But I'm one of those micromanagy types who prefers Chess to Checkers.

    SS is many things to many people. Whatever the goal of SS is can be found in the configuration menus. Notice how many ways it can be configured! It's whatever you want it to be. Take some responsibility and make it so. If the default settings aren't what you like, change the damn settings yourself until it is what you want. It's ok to not use the default settings. I encourage it. Freedom is hard.

    Now that you know that you don't like how auto role change works, turn it off! Never turn it on again. It's not necessary. I turned it off 5 minutes into my first Phase 2 play through.

    I do not understand complaining about something that you are completely free to change on your own.

    Having said that, I agree with the conclusion. But the solution isn't removing workers all together. It's changing the default setting so that auto role change doesn't pull the rug out from under you.

    If the game didn't default to auto role change and all your recruits stayed warriors, I think the tone of your post would be far different. Instead of sounding mad that all your warriors turned into workers, you'd be pleasantly surprised to learn that you can change a just few warriors into workers whenever you choose to get a significant boost to w/r/e production if you have production plots in an Outpost. You might be annoyed that no one told you sooner.

    Auto role change isn't magic, it just means that plot type determines role. If you only built recreation plots, you'd always have only warriors. It will only ever work perfectly if you build 2 Rec plots for every other job plot type.

    You need warriors. But you can play the entire game without ever having to role a recruit as a worker.
    In fact, if the default setting was auto role change off, I think most people would never even know that workers were a thing.

    Auto role change has the undesired effect of making the system more, not less, micromanagy for most. You have to constantly change what auto role change has wrought. Or you have to have built just the right kinds of plots in the right order.

    The easiest solution is just to turn it off.



    This is clever and I like where your head is at, but now instead of being "annoyed by multiple slow-ass pop ups", we can be annoyed by the thirty plus settlement mats in the build menu and by the fact that any mod added settlements aren't included.
     
    khobis, Irealys, NDCowdy and 2 others like this.
  5. Rites

    Rites Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    218

    I will probably prefer the menu method over the mat method for patrols, but that's because I still do use mat and pylon tricks for settlement building, so I already have quite a few mats buried and don't need to add more to the mix.

    Yes I know about place anywhere, but sometimes the tried and true method is just easier, lol
     
    Geoff likes this.
  6. Sterga

    Sterga New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    5

    I understand the points in the recruit roles. However, the other three roles have unique functions that can't be replicated by settlers, civilians, captives, and slaves. There are also issues with Workers that the other roles do not have.

    Commercial plots can not be worked by settlers and civilians in Conqueror? I also didn't realize civies can come raid with you. That's pretty cool.

    I have found zero mods on nexus that allow me to assign a Conqueror patrol via a mat or any other way. Do you have a link?

    The bars on the Conqueror HUD do not have text associated with them. I can buy equipment in a store (commercial plot). My crew can also be equipped by an armory (martial plot). Aren't taxes collected from every plot type except martial? Taxes are caps right? That caps bar could totally just be taxes. If that is not self explanatory that different people can see the same thing in different ways then I don't know what to say to you.

    "Whatever the goal of SS is can be found in the configuration menus."

    I can't configure Sim Settlements the way I'd like because the Worker role and the auto-role don't work well together.

    Sim Settlers fills the need of making settlers build up their own homes and jobs. Industrial Revolutions fills the needs of settlers making scrap for you. Rise of the Commonwealth fills the role of not needing to make a settlement in any way, shape, or form. What if the goal of Sim Settlements is easy to play but depth to master?

    "Now that you know that you don't like how auto role change works, turn it off!"

    I do like auto-role except the part about Workers. I want recruits to magically become guards when they assign themselves to martial plots. I would like a way for recruits to magic into patrols too. I want more automagical things to happen. I don't want to babysit my crew.

    "I do not understand complaining about something that you are completely free to change on your own."

    Was I wrong to make a suggestion in the suggestion forum that suggests how Conqueror experience could be improved? Or are you telling me to remove Workers from Conqueror in my own personal hack job of the mod which won't actually help anyone else and defeats the whole point of adding a suggestion to the suggestion forum?

    "Having said that, I agree with the conclusion. But the solution isn't removing workers all together. It's changing the default setting so that auto role change doesn't pull the rug out from under you."

    Then what is the point of having auto-role if it will always have the same issues? What benefit is there to Workers existing that can't be filled by using settlers, civilians, captives, or slaves? Why does it matter if one redundant role is removed? What is the Conqueror game-play flow losing by removing this one role?

    "If the game didn't default to auto role change and all your recruits stayed warriors, I think the tone of your post would be far different. Instead of sounding mad that all your warriors turned into workers, you'd be pleasantly surprised to learn that you can change a just few warriors into workers whenever you choose to get a significant boost to w/r/e production if you have production plots in an Outpost. You might be annoyed that no one told you sooner."

    I don't have a tone or sound like anything to you because you don't know me. Your assumptions are incorrect. Maybe I did know that workers can boost production. And that I made these suggestions anyway. I was not pleasantly surprised that I had to manually assign roles to recruits and stop using automagic just to avoid the Worker role.

    "Auto role change isn't magic, it just means that plot type determines role."

    You're wrong. It's exactly the same as the magic blue smoke in wires that run my computer.

    "But you can play the entire game without ever having to role a recruit as a worker."

    I came to that conclusion and made a suggestion.
     
  7. 1ae0bfb8

    1ae0bfb8 Well-Known Member Patreon Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    971

    i don't know that you made a suggestion, it seems you've come here to pick fights because you're frustrated.
    if i were you, i'd have a read of your posts and your replies and consider toning them down ever so slightly.
     
    Irealys, Rites and bullyrook like this.
  8. Sterga

    Sterga New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    5

    King Gath seems like a tolerant and open minded person genuinely interested in the new player experience that isn't going to flip out because I don't like something in the mod and isn't offended by naughty words. He reads the suggestions and that's all that really matters in the end.

    From my point of view, I see a bunch of close-minded strangers telling me what I think and feel, writing me off as some stupid NUB. Too busy flinging out wild assumptions and laser focusing on a naughty word in a single sentence used to express my dislike of this one thing to bother looking at the boring thought process rubbish. Didn't come here to blow anyone's ego or to put up with the disdain, just wanted to give my take on the things that made my experience bad and how it could be improved.
     
  9. Rites

    Rites Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    218

    What you don't seem to see is that those "closed minded strangers" have a better understanding of the technicalities behind the mod and know the complications of your "suggestions".
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
  10. uituit

    uituit Secretary ;) Staff Member Administrator Moderator Support Team Verified Builder Wiki Contributor

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,676
    Likes Received:
    2,123

    This isn't going anywhere except downhill.
    We don't need toxicity here.
    A little bad feeling can grow into a big bad feeling.
    So lets shut this down before it goes further.
     

Share This Page