the Sim Settlements forums!

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Major New Fallout 4 Bug Discovered: Shared Interior Cell Navcutting

kinggath

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Verified Builder
Messages
5,184
While working on several Chapter 3 quests, we continuously ran into several unexplainable problems with NPC pathing. After some thorough investigation, I've confirmed a bug in Fallout 4 that probably creates all sorts of bugs, particularly in late-game saves.

TLDR:
Interior workshops like Diamond City Player Home, Vault 88, and Chapter 2's HQ impact the NPC pathing of every other interior cell in the game. Things you build in an interior workshop will block pathing in all other cells if the coordinates of things happen to intersect areas NPCs are meant to walk.

For example, if you build a bed in one cell at coordinate 0/0/0, all other interior cells with a navmesh near 0/0/0 will have a bed shaped hole cut in them.

Technical Details:

When building things inside a settlement, the navmesh is dynamically adjusted to cut a hole where that item exists. We call this navcutting, it's generally awesome as it allows NPCs to path somewhat believably around what you build.

It does so by taking the bounding box of the mesh, and forcing the navmesh that intersects it to reform a new shape around that bounding box.

This is a unique feature of locations flagged as having a Workshop. If we dynamically spawn in items not associated with a workshop, or in cells and locations not designated as part of a workshop, the navcutting does not occur. Or at least it's not supposed to.

It turns out that with Interior cells, this rule is sort of broken.

Interior workshops, such as the Diamond City Player home, Vault 88, or our HQ cells all have the workshop tag to allow them to dynamically alter navmesh, and it generally works. The problem is that it appears to impact every single other interior cell, both other workshop cells, and non-workshop cells.

The bounding box for each built item is now cutting navmesh across all interior cells.

Fortunately, Bethesda seems to not always center their interior locations at the 0/0/0 coordinates, so the problem isn't noticeable in every single cell, since oftentimes, those navcutting bounding boxes won't be anywhere near the navmesh in other cells, but in some cases it can be quite brutal - even blocking NPCs from getting to important spots for quests to continue.

If you would like to try replicating this yourself to see it in action:

1. Take a companion with you to Vault 111 back past your spouse's pod and up the short stairs, you should be able to direct your companion to walk around on that small raised area.
2. Now go heavily build up the area around the red door in the Diamond City Player Home, really cover up as much as you can around that section of the place.
3. Return to that spot in Vault 111, and notice your companion probably won't be able to go up those stairs anymore, and definitely won't be able to path up that area as cleanly as they did before the building.

The same can likely be observed all over the game world in various interior locations, but this was the easiest location I've found to clearly witness the behavior.

I've detailed this in a report to Bethesda in hopes it can be addressed for the next-gen update.

HQ's Impact

For SS2, HQ being an interior settlement means we're contributing to this problem quite a lot, and we've observed that HQ itself negatively impacts itself, the more you build in various floors, the more the navmesh breaks on all floors - to where a fully built HQ, the settlers can hardly move.

We're looking into a solution where we move the HQ cell contents to far off coordinates that won't cross space with any other cell for the 3.0.0 patch so that we can eliminate HQ causing this. So spread the word, before you load 3.0.0 (when it comes out), you will likely want a save where your character is NOT in an HQ cell.
 
Last edited:
Solution
Alrighty, this seems to have fixed it for me. coc'ing directly between the cells no longer causes the bug. The plugin listens for cell attach/detach, and does the same thing to the refs on detach that the DynamicNavmesh system would do on ref unload.

Source code is available here: https://github.com/Deweh/EngineFixesF4/tree/master/EngineFixesF4/src

EDIT: Updated to only affect interior cell workshop objects.
Also, I forgot to note that this requires the Address Library for F4SE Plugins.

EDIT #2: Latest version of Interior-NavCut-Fix is now available on NexusMods.
Does this mean it is not safe to use any MOD-added interior settlement, like "Underground Hideout - Basement Settlement" or "Nordic Europa Research Facility"?

If so, well, I do not know what to say. I should probably be disappointed, but this discovery itself is pretty awesome considering 8 years of everyone poking around this game...
Even vanilla interior settlements cause this. For now it's basically a warning that you might want to avoid using interior settlements until someone can come up with a patch for them to move their content, or an F4SE fix.

Since we have one that is part of our story and at least a little of it must be built to complete our questline, we're going to change ours to bypass the problem.
 
Even vanilla interior settlements cause this. For now it's basically a warning that you might want to avoid using interior settlements until someone can come up with a patch for them to move their content, or an F4SE fix.

Since we have one that is part of our story and at least a little of it must be built to complete our questline, we're going to change ours to bypass the problem.
Thank you so much for your reply and clarification! OK, I shall wait, or use those settlements in my own responsibility, as any good MOD users should do.
 
Does this mean it is not safe to use any MOD-added interior settlement, like "Underground Hideout - Basement Settlement" or "Nordic Europa Research Facility"?

If so, well, I do not know what to say. I should probably be disappointed, but this discovery itself is pretty awesome considering 8 years of everyone poking around this game...
This affects in vanilla and creation club:
Home Plate
Vault 88
Mechanist Lair
Charlestown Condo
Nu Cafe Ola
Noir Penthouse
Shroud Manor
Neon Flats
 
This affects in vanilla and creation club:
Home Plate
Vault 88
Mechanist Lair
Charlestown Condo
Nu Cafe Ola
Noir Penthouse
Shroud Manor
Neon Flats
Thank you for more information! Geez, I did not know about Creation Club and was surprised to see that many interior settlements.
It also surprised me no one noticed this bug even with these settlements.
 
Sounds like those of us who are building interior cells in our mods should make sure we offset them well away from 0/0/0.

Although with my luck I'll end up offsetting my cells by the exact amount that you do for HQ and my cells will end up with busted navmeshes :grin
Unfortunately, this might be another problem we need to resolve via F4SE. It was brought to my attention the max cell dimensions are -32767 to 32768, which means there's no way we can effectively move all interior workshops to unique sections, even if we coordinated a community effort.
 
Unfortunately, this might be another problem we need to resolve via F4SE. It was brought to my attention the max cell dimensions are -32767 to 32768, which means there's no way we can effectively move all interior workshops to unique sections, even if we coordinated a community effort.
This "moving around" strategy would never work out in practice anyways and there'd always be something conflicting.
Engine level fix it is.
 
Unfortunately, this might be another problem we need to resolve via F4SE. It was brought to my attention the max cell dimensions are -32767 to 32768, which means there's no way we can effectively move all interior workshops to unique sections, even if we coordinated a community effort.
yeah I was talking about this on my discord and with this space having confined dimensions for what we considered unlimited space this will only cause more issue.
 
like if you are like me and build pass the walls of home plate. And build into the void using the vault set down there how much of that will cause issues within the rest of the game. I never even considered that.
 
Top