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Done, unfortunately

H

Haggart

Member
Messages
30
I love this mod, really renewed my interest in the game.
However my game now crashes to desktop every 2 mins. I have got as far as building the medical lab in the HQ and can't do anything, anywhere in the game, without having to load back up all over again. This is the only mod (aside from things it is dependant on) that I have and it isn't a script issue, either my pc or fallout4 itself just can't handle this much awesomeness.
 
my experience is that when your savegame file exeeds 90-100+ MB this tends to happen. i ran often into game freezes.
i'm at 78 MB. so will soon have to start anew, i supose.

you may give the following two mods a try:
Baka ScrapHeap
Buffout 4
 
there are a couple of things that can cause crashes. script death is certainly one, and @maverikch advice for Buffout is good. Baka is a little extraneous if you are running buffout, since they both extend papyrus in the same way, just buffout does a lot more to prevent other crashes. you might also want to make the recommended changes to your fallout.ini files to reinforce the papyrus engine SS2 depends upon.

Buffout also does a lot of work on the engine to prevent and catch crashes, and includes a logging feature to record why it crashed in the standard windows format. you can use something like the Crash log auto scanner to examine the crash logs and see if you can narrow down why.

if you are still getting crashes, the best chance to try to narrow down why and what is causing them might be exclusion testing your mods to see what is causing what crashes.
 
I found mod conflicts as well as getting one mod but not all of the recommended/required additional mods that were required.
 
Haggart said:
I love this mod, really renewed my interest in the game.
However my game now crashes to desktop every 2 mins. I have got as far as building the medical lab in the HQ and can't do anything, anywhere in the game, without having to load back up all over again. This is the only mod (aside from things it is dependant on) that I have and it isn't a script issue, either my pc or fallout4 itself just can't handle this much awesomeness.
Click to expand...
oh yikes! Please don't give up! If i were you right now I recommend using the tool called Loot!!! It helped me a lot!
 
SarahAda said:
there are a couple of things that can cause crashes. script death is certainly one, and @maverikch advice for Buffout is good. Baka is a little extraneous if you are running buffout, since they both extend papyrus in the same way, just buffout does a lot more to prevent other crashes. you might also want to make the recommended changes to your fallout.ini files to reinforce the papyrus engine SS2 depends upon.

Buffout also does a lot of work on the engine to prevent and catch crashes, and includes a logging feature to record why it crashed in the standard windows format. you can use something like the Crash log auto scanner to examine the crash logs and see if you can narrow down why.

if you are still getting crashes, the best chance to try to narrow down why and what is causing them might be exclusion testing your mods to see what is causing what crashes.
Click to expand...
They both do not work the same way. Though they do conflict as Buffout changes memory allocators while Baka Scrapheap works with native allocators. That's why the confusion people experience using it and seeing it not working as advertised.

You will have to disable some of the allocator changes in Buffout.toml to make both of them work. This change does not affect Buffout's bug tracing functionality or other fixes.

Code: 
BSTextureStreamerLocalHeap = false # Replaces the texture streamer's local heap with os allocators
HavokMemorySystem = false          # Replaces the havok memory system with os allocators
MemoryManager = false             # Replaces the global memory manager with os allocators
SmallBlockAllocator = false        # Replaces the small block memory allocators with os allocators

I have obviously other mods as well making the game pristine and I have not experienced any crash in a while now. I also do not use AWKCR, I do not know how much this affects it but people have strong opinions about so I gave effort to skip it in this playthrough. My settlements easily contain 60+ settlers, though yes, I deliberately did not develop the HQ.
 
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Umair Ahmed said:
They both do not work the same way.
Click to expand...
right, but they both address the same failure of heap allocation. buffout by replacing the allocators and Baka by rewriting the native allocators. so you either had to disable a bunch of buffout's work in order to get baka to do anything at all, or you can just skip baka and let buffout fix the same thing baka does when it fixes everything else. there are very minor differences if they way they operate, but most users are never going to see the difference, hence Baka is surplus if you are already running buffout.
Umair Ahmed said:
I also do not use AWKCR, I do not know how much this affects it but people have strong opinions about so I gave effort to skip it in this playthrough.
Click to expand...
ya a lot of people hate AWKCR for some reason, but i've been running it for years and have basically zero crashes attributed to it. a lot of mods used to be based upon it and a lot of mod had problems, so people got into the belief that awkcr caused crashes on basically zero evidence. i'm a little frustrated that there are now several big mods that are actively making themselves incompatable with AWKCR (ECO, ITO, Munitions) and several already in my load order basically depend upon it (Crafting Mastery, Armorsmith, Loads), so i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
SarahAda said:
right, but they both address the same failure of heap allocation. buffout by replacing the allocators and Baka by rewriting the native allocators. so you either had to disable a bunch of buffout's work in order to get baka to do anything at all, or you can just skip baka and let buffout fix the same thing baka does when it fixes everything else. there are very minor differences if they way they operate, but most users are never going to see the difference, hence Baka is surplus if you are already running buffout.

ya a lot of people hate AWKCR for some reason, but i've been running it for years and have basically zero crashes attributed to it. a lot of mods used to be based upon it and a lot of mod had problems, so people got into the belief that awkcr caused crashes on basically zero evidence. i'm a little frustrated that there are now several big mods that are actively making themselves incompatable with AWKCR (ECO, ITO, Munitions) and several already in my load order basically depend upon it (Crafting Mastery, Armorsmith, Loads), so i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Click to expand...
You misunderstand Baka, it does not fix anything, it increases the memory limit allocated to scripts. Things just run better with more headroom, the flaws of script architecture remain.

Buffout is and was never intended to do anything about increasing memory limits. The benefits you get with having special purpose allocators are better customizations and use case based optimizations. That's why I see them getting replaced a very questionable decision. For a reason, hundreds of developers, both in Bethesda and Nvidia, made these allocators, over the course of many years and continue to do so, with the option of OS allocators ever present.

There is a further trade off; the game APIs for memory allocation management lose function. The reasons could be diverse but simply its common sense; why make compatibility for something that's not going to be used. Thus, no one can do any optimization or changes to the allocation logic at all, thus, limits continue to be imposed and can't be changed.

Regardless, I have found this setup to be best with both of them in my extreme case. I have 3 settlements and over 85 settlers (AF: 3 + RR: 21 + S: 68), ~300 plots, in the triangle of death and it runs great at average 30 FPS, the script lag is there but since I increased baka limit to the maximum, it has become very manageable. Previously I had to make meditation chairs (city planner desks) all over the settlements and gaze at the sky and decipher its many mysteries. haha

---

It was indeed hard for me to let go of AWKCR but my main goal is to make settlements, not essentially play the shooter part of the game. I did that for many years when the game released.
 
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I use AWKCR because I use Unified Clothing Overhaul. I'm not sure how I would like playing without invisible armor and jetpack. While I don't play the game primarily as a shooter, people are still shooting at me so I need the armor and jetpack. Just not visible.
 
You can't make an omelet unless you shoot a few eggs. :grin

I'm decidedly a shooter. I have a big arsenal, and I carry five weapons of choice with me at all times: a silenced Colt 6502 pistol, I think it's the ACR-W17 for its loot marking ability which is the best of all of them, my main combat rifle which right now is the Mk18, a 7.62mm combat rifle for heavy bad guys, a DS58 carbine, and a silenced FN L1A2 sniper rifle. If I could figure out how to transfer the loot finding ability to another weapon, I'd drop the W17, but it's just too handy considering the way the Commonwealth tends to swallow bodies.

I run to almost every gunfight too, in case it's a good guy being preyed on by a baddie, and in Boston that's fairly common. It gets me drawn away from my quests for a while, but I hate to see dead scavengers, BoS, settlers, traders or escaped Synths. I'm funny that way.
 
Shooter here also. At least 5 weapons, plenty of stimpaks. And I spend a lot of time trying to find some of those firefights. I hear them but can't find them, then walk around the corner and I'm right in the middle.
 
We are not debating whether one is a shooter or not but whether your weapons really require AWKCR.

Even I have many weapon and armour mods, yes not one is older than 2020, still none of them require AWKCR. So its redundant these days and can be safely removed. In the past it was a necessity, before going on a fallout 4 break in 2021, even I could not imagine my load order without it.
 
slink_v_0000 said:
I use AWKCR because I use Unified Clothing Overhaul. I'm not sure how I would like playing without invisible armor and jetpack. While I don't play the game primarily as a shooter, people are still shooting at me so I need the armor and jetpack. Just not visible.
Click to expand...
You can get the same functionality out of the ECO/LEO/NEO build. You can make things pretty wild. Add in Cross Cybernetics and you can get neat abilities and even add legendary slots to them.

I didnt know AWKCR wasnt supposed to run with them - I do run them together in my full adventure build and I cant recall ever having a problem.

I love playing with various weapons. Have a 20mm sniper, something melee, a pistol (prob DEagle) for close in and an automatic for hordes. (Right now Im playing with the Louis Gun. I used to really enjoy retrofitting weapons to deal death but that got boring after a bit. So I added a mod that adds all the crafting perks as 'cyber implants' so you can just have what you want from the get go.
 
Skywise001 said:
You can get the same functionality out of the ECO/LEO/NEO build. You can make things pretty wild. Add in Cross Cybernetics and you can get neat abilities and even add legendary slots to them.

I didnt know AWKCR wasnt supposed to run with them - I do run them together in my full adventure build and I cant recall ever having a problem.

I love playing with various weapons. Have a 20mm sniper, something melee, a pistol (prob DEagle) for close in and an automatic for hordes. (Right now Im playing with the Louis Gun. I used to really enjoy retrofitting weapons to deal death but that got boring after a bit. So I added a mod that adds all the crafting perks as 'cyber implants' so you can just have what you want from the get go.
Click to expand...
The consensus i have built with AWKCR haters is simply that the mod is very old and not in active development, thus any eventual bug discovery will go unnoticed. Having such a crucial part, a framework, in such a state is bad business, thus, must be avoided.

As you said ECO stack already provides a much better system, so when you already have a juggernaught like SS2 in your load order, with many settlements, its better to not have anything that may have tendency to bug or crater your save.

With this philosophy, my current load order of 330+ mods frankly is the best and most stable I have ever had since the release of this game. It never CTDs at all.
 
Umair Ahmed said:
The consensus i have built with AWKCR haters is simply that the mod is very old and not in active development, thus any eventual bug discovery will go unnoticed. Having such a crucial part, a framework, in such a state is bad business, thus, must be avoided.
Click to expand...
this smells like purity testing rather then evidenced argument. the last update for the base game was in 2019, should be all be throwing away fallout4.exe for being out of date? the oldest mod i still run is bobby pin retexture, because nothing has changed with the bobby pin box, it doesn't need an update.

By the way: this is a very different claim from "it causes crashes" which was your previous argument, and i DO run AWKCR and i don't have crashes either (now that i got those bad settlement mods and their corrupted navmeshes out, anyways).
 
SarahAda said:
this smells like purity testing rather then evidenced argument. the last update for the base game was in 2019, should be all be throwing away fallout4.exe for being out of date? the oldest mod i still run is bobby pin retexture, because nothing has changed with the bobby pin box, it doesn't need an update.

By the way: this is a very different claim from "it causes crashes" which was your previous argument, and i DO run AWKCR and i don't have crashes either (now that i got those bad settlement mods and their corrupted navmeshes out, anyways).
Click to expand...
Its just my observation, you will make your own mind on this. I have not gone into a fervent discussion with anyone, just reading discussions of very experienced modders, who have had a hand in partly building the fallout 4 mod ecosystem. So I trust their judgement even if they don't tell me the nitty gritties.

I am not going to expand that to fallout 4 which can be changed by anyone, without permission, to the extent that it is currently phenomenally better than its original state. Unlike AWKCR who nobody can touch without the original author's permission or is even willing to. I guess because its a framework, it will also require others to jump ship, which for the majority of the mods, is near to impossible.

Also when did I say AWKCR causes crashes, I said, I don't know its effects. Only this time around, I have turned to identifying/fixing issues in mods.

This playthrough I tried my best to include only mods that have been updated beyond 2020 and it worked. I have almost no crashes, actually there is only one type of crash I rarely experience and that's due to SS2, which occurs after destroying a plot.
 
Umair Ahmed said:
This playthrough I tried my best to include only mods that have been updated beyond 2020 and it worked. I have almost no crashes, actually there is only one type of crash I rarely experience and that's due to SS2, which occurs after destroying a plot.
Click to expand...
I think Ive run into the same problem. I got around it by storing the plot / ASAM in the workshop.
 
SarahAda said:
see, this is why i'm suspicious of all the AWKCR hate. lots of people say "it's bad. don't use it" and when you dig into it you get some waffle like this at the bottom. i feel like i'm chasing the woozle.
Click to expand...
I am not going to try and prove its worthiness because I have learned to live without it and my load order for whatever reasons is the stablest I have seen ever, I am not going to change it. If you want, you can try it yourself but if you do not have issues with crashes then why even discuss. Isn't that exactly, we both trying to achieve?
 
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