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Does this mod affect settlement attack frequency?

Nicknimh

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I'm currently playing Fallout 4 for the first time, and I've been using this mod from the beginning. Recently, I switched from using Bethesda.net to MO2 (replacing all installed mods with Nexus equivalents, taking care not to have any missing ESPs), and also installed few more mods, including We Are the Minutemen. However, since doing so, the frequency of settlement attacks has gone up dramatically for me. Previously, I was getting one maybe every ten hours of gameplay, but now I'm getting one every hour or two, which is extremely annoying and borderline unplayable. I've never played vanilla, so I'm not sure how frequent they are in that. I'll emphasize that this definitely happened after the mod change, and not on account of adding a bunch of food and water to my settlements.

My working theory for why this happened is that Sim Settlements was reducing the frequency, but WATM also tweaks it somehow, and since WATM is lower in the load order (necessarily, since SS2 is an ESM) it is taking precedence. First of all, am I even correct in assuming that SS2 tweaks attack frequency? If so, might I suggest that this mod release a patch (to go at the bottom of the load order) that allows its own system to override any other mods? Or could this be a bug in WATM?

Load order:
Code:
0  0     Fallout4.esm
  1  1     DLCRobot.esm
  2  2     DLCworkshop01.esm
  3  3     DLCCoast.esm
  4  4     DLCworkshop02.esm
  5  5     DLCworkshop03.esm
  6  6     DLCNukaWorld.esm
  7  7     Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
  8  8     HUDFramework.esm
  9  9     WorkshopFramework.esm
10  a     SS2.esm
11  b     SettlementMenuManager.esp
12  c     EveryonesBestFriend.esp
13  d     SurvivalOptions.esp
14  e     CroupManor.esp
15  f     HAIA With Crafting.esp
16 10     norespawns-jamaicaplain.esp
17 11     creativeclutter.esp
18 12     dinoshelf.esp
19 13     EvilViking13_MinutemenMorale.esp
20 14     W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
21 15     Finch and Graygarden Elevator.esp
22 16     bb_vendors.esp
23 17     DarkerNights.esp
24 18     DarkerNightsDetection.esp
25 19     CompanionsGoHome.esp

Edit: Ah, whoops, it looks like I should have posted this on the questions board. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to delete the thread. If a moderator wants to move it, feel free.
 

yaugieLC

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I don't think SS2 deliberately changes the attack frequency, but the sheer amount of Defense you have just to keep that meter full is FAR more than you'd need in "vanilla" with the same amount of food/water production, so that likely indirectly affects the calculation rate. It's definitely far rarer in SS2 than vanilla - by my count I've only seen a half dozen incoming attacks since installing SS2 (on day 1).
I wasn't aware of WATM doing anything to that, though... that does bear further investigation.
 

Nicknimh

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I obviously don't know that it's WATM, but I can't think what else in my load order it would be. I suppose it could also be something that went wrong when I reinstalled all my mods, but again I don't have any missing esps or anything. Could it maybe be the survival settings mod? I'm not using it at all since I'm not actually playing in survival mode (I was going to, assuming it was like FNV's survival, but I changed my mind when I saw that it raised the difficulty; I've left it there because I avoid removing ESPs at all cost).

It's just really frustrating not being able to do even one quest without having to drop everything and fast travel across the map. Completely saps my desire to play at all.
 

yaugieLC

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I've got no idea either, but I've got no idea what else it could be, if that's your entire load order. That "minutemen morale" pack of Ranger Dave's there is just like flags and banners and stuff right?
 

Nicknimh

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That "minutemen morale" pack of Ranger Dave's there is just like flags and banners and stuff right?
Correct, as far as I know. I've deliberately kept my load order as small as possible after losing a 100 hour Skyrim save to an unknown mod error, and yet here we are... Unfortunately, I have essentially no experience with the Creation Kit, so I don't know how to look at WATM and see if it's causing this. If someone would care to do so, I would appreciate it. The WATM mod description doesn't say anything about affecting settlement attacks, but that doesn't mean it doesn't. If SS2 alters the attack formula (which is what I'm inferring from your first post ITT; correct me if I'm wrong), then perhaps it's interacting with some aspect of WATM in an unexpected way. Perhaps I should try posting on their Nexus page.
 

yaugieLC

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If SS2 alters the attack formula (which is what I'm inferring from your first post ITT; correct me if I'm wrong)
As best I am aware, SS2 doesn't adjust the formula directly; it's just that the way SS2 works interacts with the vanilla formulas in odd ways - the sheer amount of Defense you end up with (I mean a level 1 Martial plot is what, 20 Defense baseline?), plus the fact that the "Virtual Storage" isn't counted for that formula at all and less items are ending up in the Workbench, and perhaps even the fact that crops on Agricultural Plots aren't "harvestable" objects, would in theory be reducing the result of the vanilla "likelihood of being attacked" calculation.
I'm really out of ideas otherwise though. I do hope someone that knows more about those inner workings could shed some light too.
 

Nicknimh

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As best I am aware, SS2 doesn't adjust the formula directly; it's just that the way SS2 works interacts with the vanilla formulas in odd ways - the sheer amount of Defense you end up with (I mean a level 1 Martial plot is what, 20 Defense baseline?), plus the fact that the "Virtual Storage" isn't counted for that formula at all, and perhaps even the fact that crops on Agricultural Plots aren't "harvestable" objects, would in theory be reducing the result of the vanilla "likelihood of being attacked" calculation.
I'm really out of ideas otherwise though. I do hope someone that knows more about those inner workings could shed some light too.
I should note here that I've never built a SS defensive plot. Over the course of playing, I've so far found that I actually prefer the vanilla, manual building system as it's more aesthetically flexible, so after some experimentation with SS at starlight I've mostly been sticking to that, with a bit of ASAM supplementation to speed things up. (I still find SS useful for certain specific features, and I will probably use it a bit more for certain settlements that I don't care about or have a specific concept in mind for).

This being the case, I now have no inkling what caused the sudden change in attack frequency. I suppose I should look into WATM as the sole culprit, and assume it has nothing to do with SS2.
 

yaugieLC

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This being the case, I now have no inkling what caused the sudden change in attack frequency. I suppose I should look into WATM as the sole culprit, and assume it has nothing to do with SS2.
Yeah, nobody else has mentioned this specific issue that I've seen - if anything, it's been people asking if SS2 outright disables incoming attacks. And nothing else in your load order list there really stands out as being a possible cause.
 

msalaba

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I should note here that I've never built a SS defensive plot.
This could have a lot to do with your issue. The reason the defense on these plots are so high is to offset the defense requirements of other plot types. Being low on defense may be causing you to lose the "should we attack this settlement?" roll.

In other news, it seems you dislike the settlement attack system as much as I do! Try this:
It has a settlement attack reducer or even turn the system off. I turn the system off when I'm building and turn it back on when I'm not.
 

dinelen_darkstar

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I use WATM and Militarized Minutemen and have for a long time, and not seen any increase. In fact I think most other factions are too scared to attack me cause I see less.
 

dinelen_darkstar

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This could have a lot to do with your issue. The reason the defense on these plots are so high is to offset the defense requirements of other plot types. Being low on defense may be causing you to lose the "should we attack this settlement?" roll.

In other news, it seems you dislike the settlement attack system as much as I do! Try this:
It has a settlement attack reducer or even turn the system off. I turn the system off when I'm building and turn it back on when I'm not.
Without SS2 defense plots you'd have to spam hundreds of turrets to get defense up to a decent level.
 

Slb1

Active Member
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412
Adding my $.02 to the good comments/suggestions above.

Like @dinelen_darkstar, I have used WATM for years and did not see any change in attack frequency.

A suggestion - I have successfully used the mod SKK Settlement Attack System (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/37393) for more than 3 months without any issues. Well, there was a minor issue - playing as BoS, I was attacked at Red Rocket by BoS vertibirds - reloaded a save and then attacked by raiders. This mod allows you to set the frequency and intensity of an attack.

At my settings, IIRC, up to Level 20, the attacks were infrequent and light - e.g. 5 raiders maybe once a game week. Above that level, the intensity increased significantly, but about the same frequency. Since Level 30 (best guess), there have been occasional simultaneous attacks at two settlements at about the same frequency. I am now Level 50 and my most recent attack at Oberland (Food 39, Water 75, Defense 151) after about a week of game time, was 20 high level gunners versus me in Power Armor, Ada and 11 heavily armed/armored BoS settlers. Final result was: 8 stimpaks, Ada down, 3 settlers and 6 turrets lost. However, I did find about 7 of my settlers were stuck in the Library agriculture plot and only participated in the shootout when 4 gunners breached the front, see image. Besides - keeps the game lively and me travelling in a vertibird :pilot

PS: due to the plot's location next to the wall, changed the plot from Library to KGs mud.
PPS: the attack came from 3 different directions
 

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My working theory for why this happened is that Sim Settlements was reducing the frequency, but WATM also tweaks it somehow, and since WATM is lower in the load order (necessarily, since SS2 is an ESM) it is taking precedence. First of all, am I even correct in assuming that SS2 tweaks attack frequency? If so, might I suggest that this mod release a patch (to go at the bottom of the load order) that allows its own system to override any other mods? Or could this be a bug in WATM?


Edit: Ah, whoops, it looks like I should have posted this on the questions board. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to delete the thread. If a moderator wants to move it, feel free.

There is a setting in Sim Settlements to have Resource Boxes require defense, I suggest you enable that as it is off by default.
This makes it the bigger the settlement the more resource boxes you need, and more boxes you have the higher the defense requirement which makes it more likely your settlement will be attacked.
 

Nicknimh

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Just a small update. I posted on the WATM Nexus page, and the dev informed me that WATM does not affect attacks in any way. So I don't know why there was a sudden change corresponding to the time I reinstalled my mods. Maybe it was just a coincidence? I honestly have no ideas, and it will probably remained unsolved.

I'm unsure whether it's on account of using SS resource plots without SS defense plots. This is the case with a few of my settlements, but many of those being attacked were settlements that I've barely touched at all since discovering them, or that have no SS plots. I will of course build some more defenses around the network to address this, though I'm not sure why they weren't being attacked as much before.
 

dinelen_darkstar

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Just a small update. I posted on the WATM Nexus page, and the dev informed me that WATM does not affect attacks in any way. So I don't know why there was a sudden change corresponding to the time I reinstalled my mods. Maybe it was just a coincidence? I honestly have no ideas, and it will probably remained unsolved.

I'm unsure whether it's on account of using SS resource plots without SS defense plots. This is the case with a few of my settlements, but many of those being attacked were settlements that I've barely touched at all since discovering them, or that have no SS plots. I will of course build some more defenses around the network to address this, though I'm not sure why they weren't being attacked as much before.
Once you mess with a faction they normaly send a couple attacks in retaliation
 

Slb1

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412
Once you mess with a faction they normaly send a couple attacks in retaliation
Even though I have temporarily disabled the SKK Settlement Attack System mod and set the Uncapped Settlement Surplus to "No Random Attacks," I am still getting Automaton attacks - had 3 settlements assaulted in the last game week, usually by 6 - 8 robots and troops. Either, I have missed something or your explanation is accurate.
 

yaugieLC

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Don't forget that some settlements are close enough to 'random encounter spawn points' that it might LOOK like an incoming Attack, too - the railway-bridge just east of Starlight Drive-in is one such example
 

dinelen_darkstar

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Even though I have temporarily disabled the SKK Settlement Attack System mod and set the Uncapped Settlement Surplus to "No Random Attacks," I am still getting Automaton attacks - had 3 settlements assaulted in the last game week, usually by 6 - 8 robots and troops. Either, I have missed something or your explanation is accurate.
If you have not completed automatron and attacked the robots attacking ADA, they will just keep coming one after the other. Basically, once you take out the robots attacking ada you will be continually attacked until you complete that DLC. There are a couple quests that take you too close to that area and it just happens even when I don't mess with the other robots. ADA wins and the Talk to the Robot quest marker comes up and its on until you just do the DLC.
 

dinelen_darkstar

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It happens to me every time. I try and avoid doing Automatron for a long time and no matter what I always end up getting stuck doing it just to stop the stupid robot attacks. But then it becomes Rust Devils sooo... No win.
 

msalaba

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set the Uncapped Settlement Surplus to "No Random Attacks,"
My last few games, I have set this after leaving the vault. I have not received any 'defend settlement X' quests... yet. I generally avoid the area around Wattz like the plague. As @dinelen_darkstar said, once the attack against Ada is over, Automatron random encounters and settlements attacks begin. The last time I played through the DLC was SS1 - Conqueror...
 
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