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Question Crashing when approaching RoTC settlements over the build limit

Flux

New Member
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8
Hardware Specs:
1440p
Ryzen 3600
16GB 3600mhz CL18 RAM
GTX 1080

I can fast travel to these settlements. The only problem is when I approach these settlements there's a big chance I'll crash. Could be resolved by waiting for a bit near the spot where I usually crash. With that knowledge, I would like to know what's the probable cause? It seems to be 60/40 whether I'll crash or not if I don't stop and kept walking.

The following City Plan Settlements are over build limit where I also experienced crashing:

Red Rocket - Level 1 (Consitently crashing when crossing from Sanctuary Bridge. I haven't crash when approaching from a different angle though)
Tenpines Bluff - Level 1 (Crashed when I came from Zimonja Outpost)
Hangman's Alley - Level 1 (Crashed when approached)
EDIT: Sanctuary - Self-built (Crashing when crossing sanctuary bridge from Red Rocket)

EDIT: Just did a bit of test now. There are also occurrences where I crash inside Red Rocket if I successfully walked from Sanctuary. Not always but there are times.

Sanctuary is not on a City Plan and being built on my own - it's also not over the build limit. Abernathy Farm is on a Level 0 City Plan and not over build limit as well.

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Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
WorkshopFramework.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
XDI.esm
HUDFramework.esm
SimSettlements.esm
SimSettlements_IDEKsLogisticsStation.esl
BostonFPSFixAIO.esp
Flicker Fixer.esp
RAW INPUT.esp
LooksMenu Customization Compendium.esp
Merged Fixes.esp
CBBE.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
RecycleBottles.esp
W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
SCM.esp
IcebreakerCDO-Settlements.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
PiperCaitCurieDialogueOverhaul.esp
Leaders Of The Commonwealth.esp
Marmo1233 - Immersive Settlers.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
MiscHairstyle.esp
MoreHairstyles4Female4.1.esp
MoreHairstyles4Male3.1.esp
MoreBeards.esp
KSHairdos.esp
The Eyes Of Beauty.esp
Lots More Facial Hair.esp
Lots More Male Hairstyles.esp
Live Action Handy.esp
Edit_Hancock.esp
GunnerFaceVariety.esp
SSNPC - Minutemen.esp
Guards.esp
InstitWeapPosit.esp
HuntingRifleSounds.esp
FG_ReloadSounds.esp
SettlementMenuManager.esp
WorkshopRearranged.esp
SalvageBeacons.esp
GoodneighborExpanded.esp
Merged Visuals.esp
InteriorsEnhanced-All-In-One.esp
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp
Reverb and Ambiance Overhaul.esp
BarefootFootstepSet.esp
RadioReverbFixSubtle.esp
AtomicRadio.esp
OWR.esp
RAO - OWR patch.esp
NoLoopingWeaponSounds.esp
NoLoopingWeaponSounds_DLC_Nuka.esp
CityAmbience.esp
PowerArmorIntercomVoice.esp
Project Reality Footsteps FO4.esp
Vault Reverb Patch.esp
Quieter Settlements - Recommended Settings.esp
Decreased Subway Announcement Sound.esp
Easy City Downs Announcement.esp
Simple Sorter.esp

Steps I've done to diagnose the problem:

1.) Fallrim result:
oyY0rDo.png


2.) Did the ini edits for the Papyrus section

I know I'm lucky that I could still access these settlements in one way or another unlike the others. However I'm just worried if this persists I'd rather not level it up to level 2 and much less so level 3 even with a more than capable PC.

I'm sorry if this has been posted a thousand times but I've read a ton of threads even the stickied ones and I feel like none has applied to my specific kind of crashing. I would only like to know if there's a way I can stop the crash - and if it's caused by the limitation of the game engine or still a hardware specs issue.
 
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Better hardware won't help a bad game engine that is 100 yrs past its Gameboy/pro/whatever days of long gone...

As far as crashing.. you said it... wait and let it load... I only play survival so I walk all the time... doing this I HAVE NOT HAD CTD. PERIOD. END. STOP. If I have CTD, it is directly as expected from a new mod test, etc... I know and see what crashes it...

And regardless of it being a ROTC city or your home built city, makes not a difference. It is the script load of those 3 settlements... along with whatever Load order you have - we have no clue what else you are running along side this...
 
Better hardware won't help a bad game engine that is 100 yrs past its Gameboy/pro/whatever days of long gone...

As far as crashing.. you said it... wait and let it load... I only play survival so I walk all the time... doing this I HAVE NOT HAD CTD. PERIOD. END. STOP. If I have CTD, it is directly as expected from a new mod test, etc... I know and see what crashes it...

And regardless of it being a ROTC city or your home built city, makes not a difference. It is the script load of those 3 settlements... along with whatever Load order you have - we have no clue what else you are running along side this...

I literally posted my load order in the OP. It's on Spoiler.
 
I based my off braRait's long long ago.... pretty sure Icebreaker and sound / voice dialogue related items are down in the audio section.

AFT is a broken follower mod - not to mention it corrupt the vanilla companion system by injecting it's own scripting...

What FO4SE mods are you running? guards? what is that? SCM? BrB uses New Settlers and we have seen Better Settlers as popping up as problematic. Not sure about Old World Radio seems to be a performance hit in the past.

Except for some sounds not following the BrB order... don't see anything major.
 
I based my off braRait's long long ago.... pretty sure Icebreaker and sound / voice dialogue related items are down in the audio section.

Thanks for this! I'll revise my load order and report back. It's 4AM around here and I'm about to sleep so I'll update some time later.

AFT is a broken follower mod - not to mention it corrupt the vanilla companion system by injecting it's own scripting...

Yes, AFT has its fair share of potential issues from what I've read but for me so far so good - nothing game-breaking and I highly doubt it concerns the crashes since I only really crash near the settlements I've mentioned. Besides, even if I want to remove AFT I'm paranoid it's already in my save file I'm not too sure if I can still remove it. :(

What FO4SE mods are you running? guards? what is that? SCM? BrB uses New Settlers and we have seen Better Settlers as popping up as problematic. Not sure about Old World Radio seems to be a performance hit in the past.

Except for some sounds not following the BrB order... don't see anything major.

-Guards is just Diamond City Guards Overhaul. (Part of Merged Appearances by BiRaitBec

-SCM is Survival Configuration Menu.

-Better Settlers - yuuuup I was a little late knowing about its issues so same situation as AFT - not too sure if it's okay to remove it mid-game.

-OWR - pretty sure this is uninstallable assuming I do all the right things - interior cell, clean save, wait for 10 mins, etc. etc.

How do I determine my F4SE mods?
 
AFT is not an "if", but a "when"... until you start having more than 1 companion... things start creeping in.

Sorry, wasn't sure about Guards... didn't know if was one that collides with DC expansion.

No, don't install midgame - you will break your save. And especially AFT as much it invades the vanilla system, it would nuke your save (I think)…

I would play till it becomes a problem and more things start coming … then uninstall and then new game...
 
F4SE mods would be like Better Console, etc... other mods you install but don't show up in the plugin / LO list.
 
Noted about AFT. If ever starting a new game will also be my last resort

F4SE mods would be like Better Console, etc... other mods you install but don't show up in the plugin / LO list.

I did the Texture Optimization Step 1 by BiRaitBec if that helps...

Anyway here are the mods not in my plugins list:
Rudy88's Simple Sorter
Eye Normal Map Fix
Fill 'Em Up (A recommended alternative mod by BrB than Give me that Bottle)
HUDFramework
DEF UI
MCM
Faster Workshop
PrivateProfileRedirector
DEF_UI Iconlibs Rescaled and Fixed
Unlimited Survival Mode - F4SE
Oni asian face parts
fallout 4 enhanced color correction 1.2
 
Yeah, I have stated long ago I dumped all def_ui and vis-g mods. Yes my pipboy is not pretty with tags and such, but I traded that for rock solid stability.
 
AFT has worked perfectly for me. Through multiple playthroughs. It's the most rock solid companion mod out there. Can't see how it could possibly cause ctds around settlements. Unless you're using the camp functions somehow in settlements? Making settlers with that mod doesn't work with sim settlements, so that function is unused as well. Seems redundant compared to other mods I use anyway.

That Boston FPS fix however. Anything that has that big of an impact on previs makes me go hmmm. Also Interiors Enhanced. I'd try without those two first.

In my experience almost all of my crashes near settlements was when I was using a scrap mod of some type. And most of those break or alter previs/precombines in some way. So I stopped using them or any mods that significantly alter that portion of the game. Practically zero crashes now, and most are attributed to random beth bugs. Take my experience with a grain of salt, but my load order is much sillier than this one.
 
AFT has worked perfectly for me. Through multiple playthroughs. It's the most rock solid companion mod out there. Can't see how it could possibly cause ctds around settlements. Unless you're using the camp functions somehow in settlements? Making settlers with that mod doesn't work with sim settlements, so that function is unused as well. Seems redundant compared to other mods I use anyway.

That Boston FPS fix however. Anything that has that big of an impact on previs makes me go hmmm. Also Interiors Enhanced. I'd try without those two first.

In my experience almost all of my crashes near settlements was when I was using a scrap mod of some type. And most of those break or alter previs/precombines in some way. So I stopped using them or any mods that significantly alter that portion of the game. Practically zero crashes now, and most are attributed to random beth bugs. Take my experience with a grain of salt, but my load order is much sillier than this one.

Agree with what you have said... the problem is also stated by you.... "... doesn't work with sim settlements …. unused"....

Most people using mods don't know the limitations of mods, and while you have figured it out, the majority don't, and break their games.

It is great that it works for you... and I have used AFT, and broken games... it modifies the entire vanilla companion system and introduces it's own script. I use Unlimited Companions and in comparison, it is rock solid in simple task of having multiple companions, without modifying the vanilla system - tweaking will eventually introduce issues, and if you use any vanilla with custom companions, it is exponential.

As we speak in generalities and with most of the population - they don't know what breaks - but we do... and in order to NOT break sim settlements (ergo why we are posting here - and even stated by your post), I will not ever recommend anyone to use AFT - too much risk for the GENERAL population.

Again, glad it works for you, but most people break their games. Just the way it is.

My recommendation stands.
John
 
one of the things to look for when debating whether a mod should be used or not - look at how many bug reports there are and look at how quickly they are being diagnosed and resolved.

aft currently has 64 open bug reports - the last time the mod was updated, was a year ago.

if that doesn't wave a red flag, then i don't know what to say.
i wouldn't recommend it to anyone, whether it works for you or not.
 
Just because there are bug reports doesn't mean they are bugs. Many of those can be attributed to pebcak errors. UCF hasn't been updated since 2017 and there is no bug forum. The comments there are filled with bug reports. As is the forum.

This isn't a hill I'm going to die on, and to each their own, but AFT has a MASSIVE doc file covering every single aspect of the mod including known issues, conflicts, and workarounds. If people are using it incorrectly, that's on them. He spent over a year developing it, and for the most part, it works very very well for what it is meant to do.

AFT isn't going to cause settlement crashes. Unless users are specifically using it like the settlement blueprint mod, and again, that's on them. Settlement crashes are almost always attributed to previs/precombine or too many objects/lights in an area. These types of crashes have been covered extensively. Hell, even a bad city plan design with overlapping light placement is more likely to cause a ctd than a follower framework mod. And that's the most common design issue I've seen with Sim Settlements RotC plans that hasn't really been completely corrected. Lights everywhere. That's a massive drain on rendering resources. One of the first bethesda tutorials covering the geck mentions this as one of the main reasons for gameplay lag. Overlapping lighting combined with tons of objects in a single area can eventually lead to a ctd. Throw in bethesda's super dumb AI pathfinding bugs and it's no wonder most crashes people get are around settlements. Break previs/precombine and it's basically guaranteed to happen at some point.
 
What can I say, I like stable. I like updated. I like bug-free. I like mods that are supported. You do you and we'll all be good.
 
Unless you're using the camp functions somehow in settlements? Making settlers with that mod doesn't work with sim settlements, so that function is unused as well. Seems redundant compared to other mods I use anyway.

Nope, never used those camp functions as I felt it could royally screw up Sim Settlements. Especially AFT's feature of pre-made settlements, ugh no thanks - I'll stick with RotC city plans. Also hard pass on AFT feature making random NPCs followers, especially settlers - nope never.

I basically use AFT for multiple followers and scaling their damage against enemies and how much damage they receive - such a neat feature to underpower them a bit when you bring 3 companions w/ you at a time.


That Boston FPS fix however. Anything that has that big of an impact on previs makes me go hmmm. Also Interiors Enhanced. I'd try without those two first.

While Interiors Enhanced is still in my load order, I already had it disabled and started to just use fallout 4 enhanced color correction 1.2. Still crashing anyway only when I'm coming near the said settlements.

Boston FPS fix tho, that's something I've never considered disabling. I guess I'll do a bit of testing

In my experience almost all of my crashes near settlements was when I was using a scrap mod of some type. And most of those break or alter previs/precombines in some way. So I stopped using them or any mods that significantly alter that portion of the game. Practically zero crashes now, and most are attributed to random beth bugs. Take my experience with a grain of salt, but my load order is much sillier than this one.

Never installed or uninstalled scrap mods so we can cross that one out :)

quick edit: I gotta say, even though some of the replies are not directed to me, I'm learning a lot from the discussion.
 
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In my test games, the main cause of crashes was me going too fast. I spent a lot of time finding mod conflicts and incompatibilities at first. It was frustrating. It also didn't really help. Once I started appreciating how hard Sim Settlements is pushing the envelope in terms of what the Fallout 4 engine can do and behaved accordingly - giving the game a couple of minutes to rev up after I load a save, giving scripts thirty seconds to execute after you get confirmation, being careful about fast traveling, always hard saving and re-saving if the game hiccups mid-save, optimizing settlements for NPC pathing and minimal rendering, etc. - the amount of crashes I'm getting with 269 active mods in my load order on my first real game here is basically zero.
 
giving scripts thirty seconds to execute after you get confirmation

Hi, what do you mean by this?

Would also like to know what your current performance options are for Sim Settlements for stability as I still crash on my big settlements ( it's not even on...level 3.)
 
Hi, what do you mean by this?

Would also like to know what your current performance options are for Sim Settlements for stability as I still crash on my big settlements ( it's not even on...level 3.)

I just mean waiting thirty real-life seconds whenever you get a notification about something. This resource is now assigned? Thirty seconds. Changed a Guard to a Warrior? Thirty seconds. Did [some other mod feature]? Thirty seconds, etc. Don't reload your gun, don't enter workshop mode, don't do nothin'.

I use SS's High setting with Extra NPCs and Animals as well as the Armory feature turned off manually, and restrict any one settlement to at most 16 actors (counting settlers+robots+animals or special NPCs) and double the default triangles/draws limit (you can check this by selecting your workshop in the console and using getav 34a and getav 348). My computer is much worse than yours though. I also have the Boston FPS fix and AFT running in the order.

Edit: I don't build up Red Rocket because from RR you will also load Sanctuary and Abernathy, so it serves as my 'firewall'.
 
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