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Conqueror Fans- Looking for input from you!

kinggath

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As I deep dive into the Conqueror code base and am porting it forward, I realize I'm going to inherit all if its bagagge too. So now's the time to correct those mistakes.

Tell me about the parts of Conqueror that were frustrating to you!
 
Personally, I always felt like the "extra resources" for your army (Equipment/Rations/Wages) were tuned a little too far into being 'difficult', but I at least appreciate the extra 'granularity' the numbers being an order of magnitude larger than 'vanilla' values gives. That said, with the new Virtual Storage mechanics SS2 brought into play, I can see those being folded into that quite easily.
"Morale" and "Control", however, I only ever found to be a frustration. I understand why they existed, it just felt so "clunky" and "unintuitive". If there's a better way to represent what that subsystem was trying to do though, I can't see it myself without some serious pondering.

Having "Outposts" and "Vassals" made perfect sense to me too, and setting up Patrols was 100% my jam.

Oh, and I 100% forgot "enslaving" settlements was a thing, that's how little I used it. Just not my style though. (not that I can see it fitting in for the Jake's Gang story, but I'm sure someone will want it back)

If I had a single "dream feature" to 'suggest', it'd certainly be the ability to define our own "custom uniforms" for our troops (using one of those 'outfit mannequins' or something? idk) rather than rely on Leveled Lists.
 
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Friendly fire killing player team allies, I'd got rid of a few leveled list editing mods at the time because of them giving explosive weapons to raider recruits. So I would suggest an optional immunity from friendly fire for them via perk with conditions. It's mostly frustrating if it happens not due to any player action, like you're just running towards the settlement or not even at the general area yet and get raid quest failed because one of them hit a rock nearby the starting location with their missile launcher or fatman. Similar thing being if super

These could exist in 3 states, Disabled, Enabled & Progression/Unlockable. Disabled meaning the effect is always on unless changed via MCM/Holotape, Enabled meaning always on unless changed via MCM/Holotape, Progression/Unlockable meaning effect is off until you unlock it(via things like HQ upgrades, quest completion or other progression systems) or you use Cheats. The default setting could follow similarly as the scrap complexity settings being set based on the game difficulty in use at the start of the game & the options wizard settings. Friendly Fire immunicy can be done via perk effects, I have this on Superstructures for the sentrybots & turrets in order to prevent them dealing damage to settlers or receiving damage from settlers unless already hostile.

Friendly Fire Immunity:
  • NPC(player team) damage to other NPC(player team) - defaulting to Enabled unless on Survival or selected Hardcore in the options wizard
  • Player damage to NPC(player team) - defaulting to Progression/Unlockable unless on Very Easy
  • NPC(player team) damage to Player - defaulting to Progression/Unlockable unless on Very Easy
  • NPC(Enemy team) damage to NPC(Enemy team) - defaulting to Disabled, off unless player enables it via MCM/holotape
Progression/Unlockable for soldiers/recruits including things like:
  • Fire resistance + Explosive resistance
  • Stealth/staying out of combat until the player enters combat or meets up with the team
  • Custom perk effects such as Friendly Fire Immunity could be done through here
  • Some unique effects for our faction on SS2 to help give it identity
Allow vanilla companions and unique npcs to be added to your squad. Giving them the same benefits/perks/healing.
Make choices matter, it was too easy to play both sides without consequences.
Along with this, perhaps unique effects/buffs tied to specific characters. Maybe a special unit type, similar to city leaders having effects on city plans. Companions and unique NPCs would be good candidates for that.
 
!!!!!OH, one issue was the integration of non-Conqueror settlements "vanilla settlements" into the Conqueror system.
How to bring in settlements that were just acquired as in the vanilla system into the Conqueror System. They were two different settlement systems with no way to roleplay in just a settlement that the PC built up from scratch? It would be nice to have a way to bridge together the two settlement systems?

Now, I need to think a bit to come up with a good suggestion for how that might be done/look like?
 
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!!!!!OH, one issue was the integration of non-Conqueror settlements "vanilla settlements" into the Conqueror system.
How to bring in settlements that were just acquired as in the vanilla system into the Conqueror System. They were two different settlement systems with no way to roleplay in just a settlement that the PC built up from scratch? It would be nice to have a way to bridge together the two settlement systems?

Now, I need to think a bit to come up with a good suggestion for how that might be done/look like?
I know exactly what you're suggesting.
Allow occupied settlements, owned by the player, to be claimed through the raid board/desk thingy (I've forgotten what it's called). Previously a settlement had to be unoccupied to be claimed without raiding.
 
I will have to think back been a while.
I will keep updating this post with more as I think of more.


question will the plots once again be all under defence or will there be a new option?
A way to legit level up soldiers' stats would be nice. I found that I would modav on them often to make them act like the elite I needed them to be.
 
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Well, there a few things that frustrated me.

First was when you captured NPC's to work at your camp they could not use plots, though I believe KG has said that will be fixed, but I did want to voice it. Also, if there was a "good guy" way of adding that feature for CH.3 I would love it, maybe conscription or something like that. I am sure aiden would love that.

Second was that it always felt like I was low on some resource somewhere, it seemed like whenever I wanted too hire new people I was always missing something, maybe the supplies could be streamlined in some way or made more generous?

Third, leveling soldiers felt like it took far too long, especially when they were mostly supposed to be cannon fodder anyway, I dont think I have ever seen one of my guys reach level 5, highest I ever remember was a level 3 guy and he got blown up in an attack by a grenade right after hitting level 3. it almost made that system feel useless.

I do like Phil's suggestion of having unique NPC's and companions being able to join in an attack.

I also agree with yaugie that the control system felt.... off in some ways. Im not saying bad, just kinda clunky, it could use some sort of makeover, though I am not sure how off the top of my head.

Now so its not all bad, I love the patrol system, running into my guys out in the world. and the system that was introduced in phase 2 to assign roles so you kinda knew who would get pulled for attack is great, as was being able to take some of your guys with you to level them up. I also love special classes like the dogs and forged, I would very much like to see that expanded on for CH.3 or conqueror 2 as well.

OH!!!! and I LOVE being able to tell my guys to wear Power Armor when they go into battle, I really hope that can come back too, maybe tie it too an HQ upgrade? Maybe a research project or a power armor training room? Since "lore" wise you are supposed to need PA training to wear it anyway.
 
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Seriously though - this is all awesome feedback - will help me know where to focus my efforts! Keep it coming.

I already have solutions for a lot of this stuff in my plans for the port (I've been collecting suggestions for years), but I figure the stuff you guys remember the most at this point is the stuff that stings the worst and so should be on my priority list.
 
Third, leveling soldiers felt like it took far too long, especially when they were mostly supposed to be cannon fodder anyway, I dont think I have ever seen one of my guys reach level 5, highest I ever remember was a level 3 guy and he got blown up in an attack by a grenade right after hitting level 3. it almost made that system feel useless.
That was an issue I had with the recruits too.
I loved the idea but the base health / stats of recruits was so low "lower than other NPC's" in the game
that they would get shot dead if I hit them with a paper clip. :rollseye "kidding" but not too much.

So, I hope to have the recruiting system back, but maybe have a way to train them up a little faster "health" so they have half a chance of surviving.
I love the idea of getting a few of them to elite status/companion status/ a commander of some kind - ha, even an honored veteran?

So, yes I love the recruit mechanics, I would just like it to be a bit more fleshed out. :smile and improve the survivability of soldiers that have had some effort and resources put into their training by the PC? That said I still believe in death and mortality. hahah, not all will make it. :declare

IDK, maybe given the disease cures we could use some kind of "simpack" mechanic to help the troops? :help

If the player does not load them up then -- :suicide2 incoming paper clip :grin
 
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My concern are more in area of performance of Conqueror. For me in the old one I allways for the sake of immerison prebuild 12 settlements only where there are NPC present in vanila. If I prebuild them on level 3 I can't attack them because I CTD allways on attacking them. This is with only basic load order needed for Conqueror to work.

Also civilians. It seams that a lot of problems are connected to them because turrets plots would start to shoot on them, shoot on one another durring attack on the settlement, some even stand still during attack. I am currently testing prebuilding vanila settlements in game using severel different mods/blueprints and console commands. When I use civilians in vanila prebuild settlements I have some settlers/raiders/civilians standing still. I asume this is because of the limit of how many NPC-s can be active in the same time(using by the way the Gameplay Adjustments - AI Count to increaase that number). If I turn off the civilians in prebuild menu were I remove all settlements from prebuilding menu(because they are allready prebuild with vanila blueprints) and set number of guard to high in pre-counqerer menu, I can attack the settlements with all my raiders(max number in Jamer quest, 15 of them I think) engaing and all defenders engaging against us. By the way I modify that vanila settlement to have one point of entry, while inside all defenders are stuck in(locked the gate) and there is two layer of obsticals(traps) and defenses(vanila turrets). Very intense fight where I lose ofcourse :D.

The downside there is no plots in any of them which improve the performance of the game very much. Player have to build them for the counqest to continue which in turn increase the duration of the gameplay and decrease the possibility for CTD early on.

The RayBo suggestion that in some way vanila settlements be connected to Conqueror system. Maby the food, power, water production level in vanila add certen amount of value in terms of Residential, Agricultural, Commercial, Industrial, Recreational, and Martial plots(in this way settlements can different values based on the lore of the game). By using vanila system to reduce the share number of them needed? Or is it easier just to reduce the prices that require them thus reduce the number of plots needed?

Also limitation on how many settlements can be autobuild in the same time would be good as this function as good as it is(and I love it by the way) overburden the script engine even when you play with just the basic load order. Hardcore players know that the key of long gameplay with SS2 and previuse SS1/SSC is to manually build plots/cities.
 
Third, leveling soldiers felt like it took far too long, especially when they were mostly supposed to be cannon fodder anyway, I dont think I have ever seen one of my guys reach level 5, highest I ever remember was a level 3 guy and he got blown up in an attack by a grenade right after hitting level 3. it almost made that system feel useless.
So, I hope to have the recruiting system back, but maybe have a way to train them up a little faster "health" so they have half a chance of surviving.
I love the idea of getting a few of them to elite status/companion status/ a commander of some kind - ha, even an honored veteran?
My gut tells me the new Training Plots introduced with SS2 will play a part in this.

The thing I remember annoying me was the auto-equip system. You would create a squad and equip them with good stuff. Then when you entered a settlement, the system would auto-equip them forcing you to re-equip the good stuff when you left the settlement. Disabling the auto-equip system for members of your squad may be a decent solution. Another solution may be to hold squad members in a RefCollectionAlias with a script listening for changes to equipment, adding the Ref to an exclude list if the player manually equips them.

I don't have any other thoughts that haven't already been mentioned.
 
I just want the army part back with less extensive hardcore needs
And the companion options Improved with real voice lines etc
I loved to have those companions... they where very useful looting for me XD
 
The downside of being long-winded is going back and having to read your own long-winded comments and questions. :this The following comments/suggestions are filtered through my best guess/assumptions regarding Chapter 3 including: (a) I have not taken/established my first HQ, but expect to finish that his week, and (b) a major theme is the Gunners are returning to contest control of the Commonwealth and they don't take prisoners.

(1) Personal Guards - the best performing aspect of the Conqueror mod. The methods/options to create/upgrade my PGs went very well. The squad command system worked well.

(2) Assault Planning/Setup - numerous problems occurred involving:
  • out-of-order notifications preventing quest start,
  • assault rally point selection (for example: one rally point was on the rocky hillside southeast of Greygarden where my assault team got "stuck"),
  • my assault team started the assault when I was close, but not at the rally point or not showing up at all,
  • the three step vassal assault method - snipe guards, allied with settlement via workbench and then conduct an assault to make it a vassal.
(3) Actual Assault Combat - another good aspect of the Conqueror mod. The methods/options to create/upgrade assault warriors went very well. The only trouble I had at a high level was when the gunners brought a Fat Man to shot me.

Suggestion: have the assault team with PGs and companions follow the player versus meet at a rally point.

(4) Prebuilt/Preconquered Settlements - I assume this will not be part of Chapter 3. For me, there were many problems associated with some of the complex prebuilt/preconquered settlements:
  • significant stuttering even with a relatively high-end PC and
  • some of the city plans while "cool" were so complex that my assault warriors were unable to enter the settlement, the defenders were unable to move from their spawn point, and I had great difficulty navigating through the settlement. Later I fixed this by pretesting each city plans I was considering.
(5) Establishing Outposts and Vassal Settlements - I assume this will not be/limited part of Chapter 3. This was a mixed bag with the following problems:
  • occasionally a settlement to be vassal assaulted was not shown in range of an Outpost/War Planners Desk even though it was,
  • shortly after receiving notification of a successful assault, my warriors would start shooting me,
  • frequently during the assault the settlers would go "red" and attack me and the team, including even being attacked by radchickens,:shok1
  • settlers could not be moved between Outposts and Vassals, and
  • as a Liberator, it was frequently difficult to remove slave collars without using a console command.
(6) Outposts and Vassals Settlements Operations - In general, this approach worked reasonably well for me in the latter stages of Conqueror after several patches. Vassal settlement morale due to guards and happiness worked well.

Suggestions
  • recruit and train at the HQ,
  • plan assaults at the HQ,
  • use the Outposts to provide control and assistance to settlements being attacked by the Gunners,
  • Owned settlements being attacked by Gunners - (a) receive a specific timed notification of a settlement being attacked by the Gunners, (b) if the player can not make it in time, then a calculational method superior to the vanilla system is used to determine success or failure (ie actually takes into account the total defense by the plots, mgs and armored settlers) and, if failure occurs all the martial plots, mgs and settlers are eliminated.
  • Not owned settlements being attacked by Gunners - (a) receive a specific timed notification of the settlement being attacked by the Gunners, and (b) if the player can not make it in time, the Gunners take over the settlement and there are no settlers there.
7. Faction Packs - normally played as the BoS and the related faction pack was also a work-in-progress and created its own share of problems. I assume there will be no need for faction packs.

8. Misc - several old recurring problems probably due to the underlying vanilla game - (a) inconsistent population numbers between the War Planning Desk and the Pipboy and (b) guards abandoning their post

Always glad to help you occupy your spare time. :grin
 
Having had a read over everyone else's comments/suggestions/complaints, I have a confession to make in addition to my previous post; I'd legitimately forgotten "troop training" and the "rank up" system was even a mechanic that existed. It must have made so little impact to the fights that I completely forgot it was even a thing. Same for the "Mess Hall" too, now that I concentrate on trying to remember specifics about playthroughs.
 
I like a native 'in game' custom faction instead of being limited to either Raiders or Minutemen, I'd like to be able to name the faction that I'm in charge of. Just calling them 'Settlers' isn't gonna cut it. 'Commonwealth Armed Forces', 'Commonwealth Marshals', 'Commonwealth Provincial Government' are just some names that you could call your faction if you wanted npcs to actually call themselves that, otherwise giving yourself a completely random name would work too.

In terms of Conqueror mechanics that worked well but could be tweaked is in arming and equipping the soldiers. Instead of putting guns and armor in a chest that goes to the troops, we could have a mannequin that we dress ourselves and that decides the aesthetics and armaments of the soldiers
 
I like a native 'in game' custom faction instead of being limited to either Raiders or Minutemen, I'd like to be able to name the faction that I'm in charge of. Just calling them 'Settlers' isn't gonna cut it. 'Commonwealth Armed Forces', 'Commonwealth Marshals', 'Commonwealth Provincial Government' are just some names that you could call your faction if you wanted npcs to actually call themselves that, otherwise giving yourself a completely random name would work too.

In terms of Conqueror mechanics that worked well but could be tweaked is in arming and equipping the soldiers. Instead of putting guns and armor in a chest that goes to the troops, we could have a mannequin that we dress ourselves and that decides the aesthetics and armaments of the soldiers
I really like this idea if I am tracking your intent.

Letting the PC make his own custom faction would be insanely-cool! "Good - Evil - Indifferent" whatever and wherever the PC imagination takes them within reason?

I just don't know if it is even possible?
 
As I deep dive into the Conqueror code base and am porting it forward, I realize I'm going to inherit all if its bagagge too. So now's the time to correct those mistakes.

Tell me about the parts of Conqueror that were frustrating to you!
(A ) Equipment, Rations, Wages (ERW) as a concept made sense but its currency didn’t relate to ‘normal’ FO4 building. Too meta.

If the SS2C3 Conqueror currency will be expressed in a similar manner, consider making an outpost/vassal/settlement quest that lists the rate limiting issue as a quest task (e.g., quest name: ‘Outpost issues’; task name: ‘Not enough X - build more Y or do more Z’; all outposts w issue marked on map).

(B ) SS-C had the same issue as Nuka World; interesting but disjointed mechanic. Having various faction outposts and vassals is great (love war games as much or more than the next guy), but it can leave one w the question ‘Why did I spend all that time on settlement building (both gameplay and modding) when now it doesn’t matter? All that effort locked up into vanilla settlements that won’t directly impact the impending war effort.’
(B1) Ideally, the player needs to make a workshop (settlement-outpost-vassal) decision having a rock-paper-scissors impact.
(B2) At a minimum, find a way to bring them under the same umbrella and make all of them needed at some level in order to successfully prosecute the war effort. Maybe the following: Settlements are needed to create trade agreements; HQ cannot develop without trade agreements; HQ development necessary to enable outposts (via security threshold met); waging war (conquering other faction settlements) requires outposts; outposts can’t acquire resources from settlement trade agreements and so need to establish vassalage; vassals depend on outposts for protection.

(C ) Vanilla faction support within Conqueror was missing. One needed to download the customized Institute faction pack to get them, customized BoS faction pack to get them, etc. Support for them was uneven months after release.
(C1) The vanilla factions should be built into the Conqueror mechanic (preferably as integral part of SS2C3; alternatively, as SS-team curated SS2C3 addons). As Automatron is now required, the rust devils (including robots) should be included as a faction.
(C2) The squads for each vanilla faction should be leveled (weapons, outfits, attributes) and have at least 1 high value and relatively unique (if not truly faction unique) weapon and outfit.

(D) Faction imbalance. There was too much unevenness in the weapons and outfits used by the factions, even after controlling for development level. This made fights between some faction squads of the same or similar level like shooting ducks in a barrel.
(D1) To be more competitive, squad dps output of a particular level should be within some reasonably similar range across factions. [That would enable smaller super mutant squads with high relative dps output per NPC to fight evenly with larger, lesser armed Institute squads of the same level.]
(D2) To gain the upper hand, faction level development needs to occur. HQ plots-quests-achievements provide a great way to achieve this level development. Level development should offer more than just weapon-outfit upgrades. There should be buffs (or getting rid of lower level debuffs) as faction development increases. (This is effectively what FO76 does with enemy mutations in daily operations.)

(E) Disposition and drones. Hard to remedy and stay within targeted memory size, but...
(E1) At times, the liberator framework felt like it was forced or shoe horned into the conqueror mechanic. Please address.
(E2) Shallow faction identity beyond iconography. Aside from iconography and maybe general combat disposition (aggressive, neutral, defensive), there was little feel for who these soldiers were. Asking for gameplay with D&D-like alignments (chaotic evil, etc) might be too much to ask for, but Raybo’s good-evil-indifferent proposal would be a significant improvement.
(E3) Our warring behavior should elict some reactions and responses. So, for example, Aiden should be turned off if we turn warmonger and decimate the 'wealth. Reactions could be a cool off period (to talk to him), desertion, etc. Responses could be as simple as lines such as those in FO76. For instance, the FO76 Santatron (Santa-skinned scavenger Protectron) says "Have you been nice this year? Evaluating... No, oh my, no. Why did you do those things?! WWWHHHHYYYY?!" Great response in goody two-shoes faction camp.
(E4) While it maybe hyperbolic of me to call the Conqueror NPCs drones, it’s not hyperbolic to say there wasn't enough (or I missed it) Conqueror/combat related (idle) banter, especially at outposts/vassals. For a light weight version, imagine Buddy repurposed as a re-skinned morale officer. He (or she) walks around, offers refreshments, and spits out comments reflective of your faction’s alignment and war progress.

(F) Special NPCs and working at cross purposes. SS-C leveraged leaders. It was a cool feature that enhanced the military command vibe. SS2C2 introduced HQ which has incentivized the hoovering up of all the good NPCs. That change has unintentionally or not diminished the value of the leader mechanic. In war, there are leaders, and those leaders matter. SS2C3 needs to help players in their leader-vs-HQ-resident decision making.

(G) Narrative dissonance. SS2C2 puts the Gunners front and center, and was set up for enlisting the support of various vanilla factions in an ASAM-dependent, open settlement world. SS-C created a backstory for the raiders and implemented a conqueror mechanic to configure hostility against the various factions settlements in a (partially) pre-built ASAM-free settlement world. Something’s gotta give in SS2C3.
(G1) An allusion to ASAM boxes lost, stolen, etc could explain away the pre-built settlement style of SS-C. In my current playthru (started at 2.1.1), I have 3 ASAMs and have yet to meet Jake or visit Concord.
(G2) the hostile-friendly-neutral attitude of a vanilla faction (BoS, super mutants, etc) should apply to all that faction’s NPCs throughout the ‘wealth. Having raiders hostile in the vanilla game locations such as Corvega but friendly at a pre-built settlement/outpost/vassal (or vice versa) would kill immersion. If we intend to avoid reconciling attitude, we should at least give a different moniker to our vanilla factions using settlements-outposts-vassals.

(H) Loadouts. The custom faction packs had some loadout capability, but it was a static, pre-set list by the modder. Whilst great for conveying the vibe the mod author wanted, it made in game adjustments impossible without manually trying to override rank weapon assignment.
(H1) Being able to include gun mod guns (i.e. non-vanilla weapons) in the loadouts would be very much appreciated.
(H2) Being able to use the trade mechanism to switch role (rank) loadouts of your faction on the fly would be great … even if linked to custom workbench at HQ.
(H3) Being able to set or augment vanilla faction weapon loadouts would be fantastic.
 
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I'd like to be able to name the faction that I'm in charge of. Just calling them 'Settlers' isn't gonna cut it.
You can kind of do that already with this mod:
IIRC, in SS1-Conqueror, after a certain quest, you got to name your faction. If that mechanic comes back, it wouldn't take much to create a patch for the linked mod to allow the player to rename your faction with a custom name. C3 would have to release before I could tell you for sure what's possible.
 
You can kind of do that already with this mod:
IIRC, in SS1-Conqueror, after a certain quest, you got to name your faction. If that mechanic comes back, it wouldn't take much to create a patch for the linked mod to allow the player to rename your faction with a custom name. C3 would have to release before I could tell you for sure what's possible.
Gotta wonder if C3 will drop before SS2 Conqueror does, maybe both at the same time, it would seem the most appropriate time to do it, building up a military to guard the Commonwealth. I don't use that Rename mod, I know it clashes with a few mods I'd prefer an in house solution tbh
 
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