Component maintenance costs never go down, plot and nonplot costs.

[Daishi5]

I think I found a bug with maintenace costs of all types. The maintenance costs of both plots and non-plot items are never eliminated. What I mean is, when a plot or non-plot item is built a maintenance cost is added to the settlement, but when they are stored in the work bench or scrapped, the maintenance cost remains. I suspect that this is also happening with upgrades, but I haven't been able to test it yet.

I started a new game for 1.0.12.

I went to sanctuary and built a generator, a beacon and a water purifier.

My maintenance costs were -2 anti-septic, and -1 oil. (There are other costs, but these are what I tracked carefully.)

I stored my water purifier and my maintenance costs remained -2 anti-septic and -1 oil.

I placed my water purifier back down, -4 anti-septic and -1 oil.

I scrapped my water purifier -4 anti-septic and -1 oil.

I tried sleeping for 24 hours a few times, and I verified my anti-septic was ticking down at -4 a day and oil was ticking down at -1 a day.

At this point I started trying to test with steel because I wanted to see if plot and non-plot items behaved the same.

I completed the starting quest and built plots for all my new settlers to get industrial and farm plots.

When I was done I had +174 steel per day.

I built a water spigot 169 steel.

I picked up and moved the spigot, 169 steel.

I stored the spigot 169 steel.

I rebuilt the spigot 164 steel.

I built a new spigot 159 steel.

I scrapped the original spigot 159 steel.

Then, I moved on to plots.

I switched a residential plot to a multi-home plot. 159 steel after it was done, but after sleeping it went down to 155 steel. (this cost was slow to update, but it was updated eventually.)

I switched it back to a single-home, waited a full day, 155 steel.

Waited several more days, still 155 steel.

I switched a different residential home to multi-home, after a days wait, 151 steel.

In summary, whenever a plot finishes building or I build a non-plot item the maintenance cost is added. I have not found a situation where I can get the maintenance costs to go down. It does not appear to be a visual bug as the supplies appear to be adding at the rate indicated. My storage is full, so I could only validate on the anti-septic.

 

[ceemosp]

That (in combination with the issue of not deleting old plots when upgrading) would explain the astronomical operating costs I experience.
I went to a few settlements and encountered "stacked" plots (again sigh) - up to 3 on top of each other. I painstakingly deleted the doublettes, since refreshing the city plan wouldn't do the trick and/or result in glorious CTDs when at it.
Another thing I noticed is that you can "force" SS2 into building stacked plots when being impatient.
In Sanctuary I built all plots manually (no city plan) and when placing a new plot, the "calculating costs" pop-up never appeared after selecting the plan.
So after waiting quite a bit I selected the (then showing blank/default) plot and tried again, assuming the script had dropped my previous selection.
Still nothing after another coffee and sammich break, so I hit refresh - with the same outcome.
I saved and exited the game, restarted and tried again, this time the popup came up but my joy didn't last too long. I realized that there was the scaffolding (indicating something was building) over the completed plot, so I dug (literally) a little deeper and deleted the selectable plot.
I was surprised to find another plot foundation with its ASAM popping up, deleted that as well and found the "third level".
I am not too sure that this is "expected behaviour"

 

[Daishi5]

That (in combination with the issue of not deleting old plots when upgrading) would explain the astronomical operating costs I experience.
I went to a few settlements and encountered "stacked" plots (again sigh) - up to 3 on top of each other. I painstakingly deleted the doublettes, since refreshing the city plan wouldn't do the trick and/or result in glorious CTDs when at it.
Another thing I noticed is that you can "force" SS2 into building stacked plots when being impatient.
In Sanctuary I built all plots manually (no city plan) and when placing a new plot, the "calculating costs" pop-up never appeared after selecting the plan.
So after waiting quite a bit I selected the (then showing blank/default) plot and tried again, assuming the script had dropped my previous selection.
Still nothing after another coffee and sammich break, so I hit refresh - with the same outcome.
I saved and exited the game, restarted and tried again, this time the popup came up but my joy didn't last too long. I realized that there was the scaffolding (indicating something was building) over the completed plot, so I dug (literally) a little deeper and deleted the selectable plot.
I was surprised to find another plot foundation with its ASAM popping up, deleted that as well and found the "third level".
I am not too sure that this is "expected behaviour"

I think this is why I abandoned my previous play-through, I was looking at losing 400 steel a day, and I wasn't able to keep up by looting and building more industrial zones.

Part of the problem is that I think this also effects upgraded plots. So you get the maintenance costs for level 1, level 2, and level 3. By the time you are regularly upgrading plots you have many settlements and I think it doesn't become clear this is a problem until some of the costs are too big too overcome, but by that time its nearly impossible to get a count of all the costs.

 

[esotericist]

well, this seems rather consonant with my experiences and why my settlements seem to consistently end up nonfunctional. i tried to do my best to report that things were behaving very incorrectly back in november to little avail. considering you aren't allowed to use municipal or martial plots early on, i was forced to lean heavily on non-plot objects, and because it never would have occurred to me it was in any way unsafe to place then store those items, i would often store things before relocating them, if i decided they belonged elsewhere in the settlement.

i'm really wishing i had gone with my gut instinct for my latest run and just gone back to sim settlements 1.

 

[Din'elen DarkStar]

Yes the the non-plot operating costs are on even when off and that is the problem. This should be being addressed in the upcoming patch. Its being looked at by "Top Men".

 

[esotericist]

Yes the the non-plot operating costs are on even when off and that is the problem. This should be being addressed in the upcoming patch. Its being looked at by "Top Men".

that is a problem, but based on the contents of this thread and things in other threads i've been working through tonight while trying to troubleshoot my situation, it is far from the problem.

 

[msalaba]

So far in my testing, scrapping resource generating objects will remove the non plot maintenance costs from the settlement. I will have to check if "storing" to the workshop also removes the costs.

 

[Daishi5]

I believe I found the problem, a mod called "clean my settlement" seems to cause this. I thought this was a safe mod because I found it on the recommended companion mods suggestion thread.

Is there any way to report a mod conflict that other people could find, so other people don't run into the same problem?

 

[msalaba]

I believe I found the problem, a mod called "clean my settlement" seems to cause this.

I recently helped the author (@Whisper ) clean up some code in this mod. I find it hard to believe it could cause your issue.

Could you explain in detail what leads you to believe there is a conflict?

 

[cbrgamer2]

I have tested the issue of maintenance costs not being removed when you remove a workshop object. For me it is inconsistent and I haven't been able to confirm the cause. I don't have the Clean My Settlement Mod.

 

[Daishi5]

I recently helped the author (@Whisper ) clean up some code in this mod. I find it hard to believe it could cause your issue.

Could you explain in detail what leads you to believe there is a conflict?

The behavior I saw in my original post, IE when removing items from my settlement either via scrapping them or storing them, my maintenance costs would not go down.
Steps I performed.

1. The testing in the first post. (Refer to this as game1)
2. I updated Sim settlements and workshop framework, then went back to game1 and tried again. Issue persists.
3. I removed clean my settlement and tried to load my game, it crashed so I started a new game, did the quest up to concord, and tested again, the issue did not appear (Game2).
4. I reloaded clean my settlement and tried to Game1 again, issue re-appeared.
5. I tried game2 again, issue re-appeared.
6. I posted here.
7. I went back again to test it since you said you didn't think it could cause the problem.
8. New game (game3) with clean my settlement loaded. Started the game, went to sanctuary, and tested; the issue did not appear (!)
9. Loaded Game1, Issue appeared.
10. Loaded Game2, Issue appeared.
11. Loaded game3, deleted a shrub (one you normally cannot delete), issue now appeared.

At this point, I think it is one of two things needed to trigger the issue, either loading a saved game or deleting some stuff that you normally cannot delete. With clean my settlement I did not see the issue on a brand new save in a brand new settlement till I reloaded and deleted a shrub. At the time, I didn't consider that loading the game might be something that triggered it, I was just testing my theory about the shrub.

My Mod list:
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
IDEKsLogisticsStation2.esl
WorkshopFramework.esm
SS2.esm
CanarySaveFileMonitor.esl
HUDFramework.esm
WorkshopPlus.esp
IDEKsLogisticsStation2_SS2_Patch.esp
SS2Extended.esp
Raze My Settlement.esp
ArmorClothingOverhaul.esp
SettlementMenuManager.esp
SS2_CityPlanPack_RiseOfTheCommonwealth.esp
PA-Quick Animations.esp
USP 45.esp
Esk_NoTeleportingCreatures.esp
AllSetsExtended.esp
CleanMySettlement.esp
W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
MilitarizedMinutemen.esp
Skip New Game Intro.esp
Dank_CowboyRepeater.esp
G36Complex.esp
Dank_G36.esp
M1A.esp
Dank_M1A.esp
HK_MP5.esp
Dank_MP5.esp
ASEFarHarbor.esp

 

[Daishi5]

The behavior I saw in my original post, IE when removing items from my settlement either via scrapping them or storing them, my maintenance costs would not go down.
Steps I performed.

1. The testing in the first post. (Refer to this as game1)
2. I updated Sim settlements and workshop framework, then went back to game1 and tried again. Issue persists.
3. I removed clean my settlement and tried to load my game, it crashed so I started a new game, did the quest up to concord, and tested again, the issue did not appear (Game2).
4. I reloaded clean my settlement and tried to Game1 again, issue re-appeared.
5. I tried game2 again, issue re-appeared.
6. I posted here.
7. I went back again to test it since you said you didn't think it could cause the problem.
8. New game (game3) with clean my settlement loaded. Started the game, went to sanctuary, and tested; the issue did not appear (!)
9. Loaded Game1, Issue appeared.
10. Loaded Game2, Issue appeared.
11. Loaded game3, deleted a shrub (one you normally cannot delete), issue now appeared.

At this point, I think it is one of two things needed to trigger the issue, either loading a saved game or deleting some stuff that you normally cannot delete. With clean my settlement I did not see the issue on a brand new save in a brand new settlement till I reloaded and deleted a shrub. At the time, I didn't consider that loading the game might be something that triggered it, I was just testing my theory about the shrub.

Nevermind all that. I went back, disabled clean my settlement, and loaded game 2 from a time before, and now the issue is in game2 without clean my settlement. This had been a game that was working. So, unless clean my settlement can corrupt a save it was never loaded in, just by being further down the save file chain, it looks like its something else.

 

[msalaba]

Do you have the latest version of SS2 installed? Also note that it can take a while for the HUD to update. Script lag can make this worse. There are times when I have had to go far enough away from a settlement for it to unload. When I return, things finally update.

 

[Whisper]

Nevermind all that. I went back, disabled clean my settlement, and loaded game 2 from a time before, and now the issue is in game2 without clean my settlement. This had been a game that was working. So, unless clean my settlement can corrupt a save it was never loaded in, just by being further down the save file chain, it looks like its something else.

Whew! Thank goodness…

 

[Daishi5]

Whew! Thank goodness…

I am Sorry, I thought confirming it went away when I removed the mod and came back when I re-added it would be enough of a test. I greatly underestimated how complicated the cause might be.

On the good side, the very latest patch has made the issue go away in every save I have tried. It can take a while to go to all the settlements, but I had a game where my network was -400 steel a day go up to + 200 steel a day.

 

[msalaba]

I had a game where my network was -400 steel a day go up to + 200 steel a day.

If you have non-plot maintenance costs on, settlement objects that provide power, water or defense use a lot of steel. Especially turrets.