Bling/Style Tips

[Whisper]

It also allows us as city builders to develop our own personal styles.

 

[VersusXV]

It also allows us as city builders to develop our own personal styles.

True. I prefer to go for a sort of utopian style, I simply like my results more when trying this way rather then the "edge of starvation" style settlement, when I do those I didn't find the results to be interesting and I always preferred other people's takes on that. If I copied the junk theme I find I end up preferring to use RotC anyways.

By "utopian style" I mean thinking what if they had machinery and robotics to help in construction? What if some level of prewar style could be built?

 

[Whisper]

It sounds like prewar would be good for DLC and automatron and the like.

The Starlight thing forced me to think about certain things:

L0 = 5 or 6 + leader

That my plans should focus on the basics first. That is water, food, defense, healing. With 5 settlers that becomes: 3 agriculture (1 each of corn/mutfruit/tato), 1 defense, 1 medic. Add +1 settler if a provisioner or an IDEK-style plot is desired from the beginning.

The 3 agriculture plots should provide enough food for up to 20 settlers at fully-established L3 city, plus have a little left over for the player to make adhesive. I hope, anyway. Perhaps add in a razorgrain plot at L1, for extra food. (Razorgrain is imo underrated for trading, since it's got a good price yet is lighter than other crop types.)

I wonder how many city plans will have the space, as it were, for a provisioner or salvage beacons. Or for if the player wants to add in industrial revolution plots.

 

[a2raelb]

my plans should focus on the basics first. That is water, food, defense, healing. With 5 settlers that becomes: 3 agriculture (1 each of corn/mutfruit/tato), 1 defense, 1 medic. Add +1 settler if a provisioner or an IDEK-style plot is desired from the beginning.

while I agree in general with focus on basics, I am not sure whether an early game settlement like starlight should already fully support one of the most powerful crafting recipes at L0.

I dont really use city plans that much and dont know whether they avoid certain base mechanics, but with all SS features you'll need at least 3 industrial plots for lvl 2 martial plot upgrades.
So having no (advanced) industrial plots looks really strange for me. I usually have at least!! two industrial plots with my first 6 settlers. (one that gives water and one plot that gives power or at least a lumber yard for wood and fast upgrade to coal power plant)

EDIT:
hmm maybe that's the reason why my sanctuary city plan was sooooo much slower and difficult to build up/balance maintenance than my manual built city in starlight?

 

[WetRats]

I've used 1 full ladder for the bottom climb, and 1 full + 1 half ladder for the top stretch. The character seems to land pretty hard at the bottom when climbing down a couple of full ladders.

Where are those ladders? I want those ladders!

I NEED those ladders.

Come on, man, help a brother out.

 

[Whisper]

@a2raelb - re powerful crafting recipes, I’m not 100% certain - yet I don’t think that the city will be producing much surplus until about L2. That’s about the point it becomes fairly well established as a city, as I understand.

My Starlight build had a City Well also. Though thinking back on it, that was not really a good idea for that particular build. There is already a good supply of water easily available there, it might have been better for L1 or L2 for that. When the settlers start saying “okay we’re defended and not starving, let’s start thinking about some luxury’s - like maybe a brewery“.

@WetRats - they’re at: Project Blue Print > Special > Interactive

Supposedly settlers (and companions?) can use them, I’ve not tried it.

 

[WetRats]

@WetRats - they’re at: Project Blue Print > Special > Interactive

Supposedly settlers (and companions?) can use them, I’ve not tried it.

Thank you!

That will revolutionize my builds.

 

[WetRats]

I just found your Project Blueprint Menu PDF.

Vive la revolution!

 

[a2raelb]

powerful crafting recipes, I’m not 100% certain - yet I don’t think that the city will be producing much surplus until about L2. That’s about the point it becomes fairly well established as a city, as I understand.

Lvl 1 farms give at least 1 per day. Thats 5 adhesive (a shipment of 5 adhesive is 200 caps) and 16 base XP from crafting every three days without even looting the field. If you choose the no tax option you even double that production!!!

My Starlight build had a City Well also. Though thinking back on it, that was not really a good idea for that particular build. There is already a good supply of water easily available there

Well, there is a radioactive puddle in starlight... yeah sure you can scrap the barrels and it allows to place water purifier, but honestly does this really make any sense?

But that wasnt really my point. My point is that you NEED 3 industrial plots to be able to upgrade your defensive plots if you activate all SS industrial features. This means it is pretty much impossible to build up a settlement without running a huge deficit from turrets if you dont build a bunch of industrial plots very early in the game to rush lvl 2 martial plots.

Is this different with city plans? do they "cheat" the sim settlement system by upgrading plots without meeting the requirements and maintenance free turrets/generators?

 

[Whisper]

@a2raelb I was under the impression that the settlers ate first, so the excess would not be much. It would also depend on how SS assigns plots - it might unlock/assign agricultural, then martial, then agricultural, then medic, then agricultural yet again.

The full number of L0 settlers (5-6) with 3x L1 agri plots only produces 2 food per plot, very slight excess. With 6+ water, then a single L1 martial plot doesn’t produce enough defense. (I’m not thinking from the viewpoint of full Industrial Revolution, simply the most simple/basic SS mechanics that I know of for the starting city. Flow-on effects for an L3 city would hopefully be as per my thinking, testing definitely required.)

This for the L0 city. That ^^^ means there would be points in time when the city is under-protected for its production and subject to attacks. A perfect reason for the player to go view the city occasionally as it slowly grows and upgrades. Extra turrets and such optional...

@snarkywriter is in the process of writing out a wiki/article which will help with these questions and give us more of a handle on how it actually works. I’m hoping that’ll let me develop a better plan for my cities, and for all of us to develop our own styles and preferences.

 

[Koeran83]

@snarkywriter is in the process of writing out a wiki/article which will help with these questions and give us more of a handle on how it actually works. I’m hoping that’ll let me develop a better plan for my cities, and for all of us to develop our own styles and preferences.

I look forward to reading this!

Regarding Adhesive farming, I wouldn't be concerned about unlocking it too early. Any savvy/experienced player will be prioritizing those farms in their own build. Not doing so in your plan will just be annoying and force players to overwrite them.
The only time I've planted anything else is playing survival, where food actually matters, so I also plant carrots, razorgrain, gourds and extra tatos. So I have the extra ingredients for soups and roasts. Soups especially as they count as food and water.
That said, high level plans, especially those intended for survival gameplay, should include farms that produce the ingredients needed for the herbal chems, as well as antibiotics. Assuming such plots exist.

 

[Whisper]

That said, high level plans, especially those intended for survival gameplay, should include farms that produce the ingredients needed for the herbal chems, as well as antibiotics. Assuming such plots exist.

I believe that they do exist, though not in the core SS experience - addon packs required.

 

[Whisper]

One of the things I was told (by Yagisan or Uituit?) was to not make my city plan a non-fun plan. It was in specific reference to caps flow and trying to keep it neutral/positive. If the player has to keep paying caps upkeep, it can really aggravate them.

This was back when I mentioned spamming my Castle city plan with MG Turrets. The problem was that at the time I didn't know about the BS Defense mod, so even having massively overdefended settlements the damn 3-4 raiders would generally win the attack. Sucky...
—edit—
Originally with the Castle I had planned only on using vanilla beds. A military barracks, you know?

When the guys made a special point that residential plots provide taxes, I switched to using them. Specifically to offset the cost of turrets.

 

[WetRats]

I'm rather overwhelmed by the choices in Project Blueprint.

Are there piles/stacks of lumber somewhere in there?

 

[Whisper]

I'm rather overwhelmed by the choices in Project Blueprint.

Are there piles/stacks of lumber somewhere in there?

There is a heck of a lot of stuff - very overwhelming indeed. That's why I created the PDF, to help get my head around it and as a quickie reference for others. Then it just becomes chip away and explore at leisure.

Try looking under: Structures > Wood > Planks <<< I think it might be in there.

 

[WetRats]

Thanks. Will do.

The PDF has already helped, I used it quite a bit last night.

If they aren't there, I will have to figure out how to rotate vertically with Place Everywhere. I know it can be done, dangit.

 

[VersusXV]

One of the things I was told (by Yagisan or Uituit?) was to not make my city plan a non-fun plan. It was in specific reference to caps flow and trying to keep it neutral/positive. If the player has to keep paying caps upkeep, it can really aggravate them.

That is a great point! It would be surprising and might make people think a bug is occurring since RotC & other city plan I have tried are generally self sufficient.

When the guys made a special point that residential plots provide taxes, I switched to using them. Specifically to offset the cost of turrets.

How much do turrets cost? And do they still cost caps when added by a martial plot?

Couldn't really find anything for what the income cost would be on my own Martial Plots, for if I do not set any offset manually for it. I was going to add a cost since they are stronger turrets but ended up leaving it alone since I can't tell how much it already costs. I'd like it to be maybe a little more than usual but nothing crazy, I think I did make it give some more defense rating. It should be minor noticeable but not at all disruptive. So long as it's guesswork for me I would just leave it at stock settings.

 

[Whisper]

If they aren't there, I will have to figure out how to rotate vertically with Place Everywhere. I know it can be done, dangit.

With Place Everywhere, use the Ctl key to choose the axis of rotation (X/Y/Z) and Alt to choose if it's world- or player-specific.

 

[Whisper]

How much do turrets cost? And do they still cost caps when added by a martial plot?

As I understand, 1 cap per defense from turrets. Which means the basic MG costs 5 caps in maintenance, even if you're not shooting anything. Oil and gas and maintenance I guess, or seems to make sense to me.

I vaguely recall seeing KG and someone else talking on discord about turrets and plots, and that even if it's plot-added they cost upkeep. Makes sense I suppose, don't want someone to build a two- or three-level martial plot that spams turrets on every level. It would be a cheaty way of getting around the costs.

 

[WetRats]

With Place Everywhere, use the Ctl key to choose the axis of rotation (X/Y/Z) and Alt to choose if it's world- or player-specific.

So cool. Thanks! So many things I want to do in/with/to the game I'm spinning in circles.