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Solved Merged armies?

BigbyJWolfe

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2
Hello, I've been having an interesting issue where my two factions are operating as if they were one. To give context. I have the Brotherhood faction pack and after setting up a couple outposts I had decided to set up a couple outposts for the Forsaken Vaulters. Now The outposts are assigned to each faction as they should be, but when I recruit Vaulters, brotherhood soldiers show up and when I launch attacks the Vaulters pull out of the Brotherhood military pool. To make it more odd, the brotherhood soldiers have also started using the Vaulter's leveled items list, showing up in their uniforms with cryo weapons ect. And if I launch an attack with the Brotherhood, Vaulters will occasionally be mixed in among their ranks. It's truly bizzar and I can't figure out why this is happening. I brought this up with the Author of the Forsaken Vaulters mod and he was unable to recreate the problem however he informed me he can't actually build brotherhood bases in his game due to the requirements. So I'm just wondering what could be causing this, it doesn't appear to be a conflict since both factions are loading and working, their just... merged?

UPDATE: I had preformed a full reset of Conqueror and both faction packs. Prior to unlocking the ability to build brotherhood bases (I figured a whole new game would be best.) I was able to recruit Vaulters and build Forsaken outposts just fine. However after completing the brotherhood and unlocking the ability to build Brotherhood bases. I began to have the same issue, but in reverse this time. So it appears to me, that currently Conqueror will read whichever Faction pack that loads first as a "Primary" of sorts, and though the bases are technically separate, it views all your troops as being in one faction which causes them to be recruited from one NPC pool and that pool is shared by both factions. This is the conclusion I've come to. If anyone has any further suggestions or possible fixes for this behavior feel free to let me know. Thank you.
 
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Here's the private conversation we had about the issue, if that can help anyone to contribute... :

tyeeozalee

Hey!

I've issued a Fix for the Forsaken Vaulters ("4.0.5-D FIXED") and answered your messages on my page. However, I've noticed that you reported the same issue on Conqueror's page 4 hours after the fix was online. Were you still using the previous corrupted version? Could you please tell me whether the Fix works for you or not?

Thanks in advance,

Tyee


BigbyJWolf

Sorry About that, I lagged and accidently sent a copy lol. Yes I had upgraded to the fix'd version of your mod by then and it did fix my issues that I was having. Partialy, which is why I moved over to the Conqueror page instead. Because it doesn't seem to be an issue with your mod directly, The problem I'm having now is that Conqueror doesn't seem to be registering the two factions as seperate. The Outposts are clearly marked as being Brotherhood and Forsaken respectivley, however when I call for troops or launch an attack from a Forsaken base, all I get is brotherhood soldiers. And Oddly enough, some of my brotherhood troops are now wearing the Vaulter gear. It's like the two factions are for whatever reason being mixed together into one.


tyeeozalee

I'm going to try iterating the bug. I haven't moved to the last SS versions so I'll be able to see whether it's my pack's problem or a Conqueror issue.


BigbyJWolf

I'm going to try iterating the bug. I haven't moved to the last SS versions so I'll be able to see whether it's my pack's problem or a Conqueror issue.

Alright. I appreciate the effort on your part it's nice that you care about quality so much, not something you see a lot anymore
smile.gif
. And I have the newest SS by the way, which is part of what made me think it might be related to Conqueror. I'd never seen anything about weather or not it can handle multiple faction packs running at the same time however so I'm wondering what the SS team might have to say. for all I know I broke it by trying to run multiple packs lol. Would It help at all if I sent my load order? I have no conflicts being flagged or anything But I know anything is possible


tyeeozalee

Generally speaking, do report what you think are SS bugs (may they be 3-in-1 related, SS only, Conqueror or anything SS related) on the SS.com forums: https://www.simsettlements.com/site/index.php?forums/bug-reports-here.182/

People literally jump up and down to help you and I can't insist enough about how great the community is. Bugs get more visibility this way and people are likelier to help you (the Nexus pages don't have as much traffic from vets.


BigbyJWolf

Noted. I'll take a peak over that way and send it in for them to review. Again, thank you for the help
smile.gif



tyeeozalee

I've tried iterating the bug with the previous SS version but I couldn't reproduce it. I have the brotherhood pack but I did not go as far as to create one of their outposts (I haven't reached the stage when I can do so since you have to finish the main Brotherhood quest before you can unlock BoS outposts in the pack). Otherwise every feature works when I spawn and attack settlements, only vaulters appear. I'm gonna try to update SS.


BigbyJWolf

Okay, I've submitted it as a question on the Conqeuror threads for a review and the mods will decide if it's a bug or something else from there. Hopefully I get an answer soon, then I can send it to you to sticky, just incase this issue arises for anyone else using multip packs.


tyeeozalee

I can't replicate the bug with the new versions either. I'm using my latest Forsaken fix and the latest updates on Workshop Framework +, SS 3-in-1 and SS Conqueror. I tested outpost creation, soldier spawning, soldier assault with outpost capture and it all works fine (including decorations and the radio).

However, I do get a weird shade of dark on a few soldiers faces when they spawn, does that happen to you?

You can also try to load a save that predates the bugs to check whether it fixes them.
 

BigbyJWolf
Sent Today, 07:45 AM

No I don't have any texture issues of any kind. Aside from the soldier pools being shared between factions I've had no issues. All decorations and Radio function fine for me as well. It's only the soldier's that are giving me problems. And since we last spoke I did give a reload a try, it didn't help as the only save I had from before was before I even installed the pack, so after it reactivated I ended up having the same problem. I might try a full reset of Conqeror but that will have to wait until after I get home from work tomorrow.
 
BigbyJWolf
UPDATE: I had preformed a full reset of Conqueror and both faction packs. Prior to unlocking the ability to build brotherhood bases (I figured a whole new game would be best.) I was able to recruit Vaulters and build Forsaken outposts just fine. However after completing the brotherhood and unlocking the ability to build Brotherhood bases. I began to have the same issue, but in reverse this time. So it appears to me, that currently Conqueror will read whichever Faction pack that loads first as a "Primary" of sorts, and though the bases are technically separate, it views all your troops as being in one faction which causes them to be recruited from one NPC pool and that pool is shared by both factions. This is the conclusion I've come to. If anyone has any further suggestions or possible fixes for this behavior feel free to let me know. Thank you.

Thanks for this update! The issue in question was a real pain and we can finally understand where it comes from. To me (and anyone's welcome to correct me if I'm wrong), Conqueror locks you up in the faction of your choosing once you've selected it on the War Planner's Desk, meaning that all installed faction packs can still be used by the system as enemies but that you end up restrained into recruiting soldiers solely from your selected faction. This lock up prevents the said issue from occurring with most faction packs. [I remember wanting to create a Triggermen and then a F Vaulters outpost once, but after creating the first one, I could only continue creating outposts of the said faction and not from any other faction).

As I understand it, what happened is the following: the BoS faction pack is a little different from other packs insofar as it works with its own version of the War Planner's Desk. That particular feature might be what bypasses Conqueror's faction lockup, allowing you to establish BoS outposts even if you have already selected a faction pack with the standard WP's Desk (a procedure that ends up merging both packs attributes). It seems to basically bypass the faction lockup system (which would also explain why I can't iterate that bug with other factions).

We should try to bring that issue up to @Takarazuka to get his opînion on the matter. @kinggath might also be interested.
 
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The system was only really tested with one faction in mind, I figured this would come up eventually, but will take a while for me to come up with a way to fully support multiple faction gameplay. For the time being, you should plan on only ever configuring one faction for all of your outposts in a given save.

The idea is that you're operating a faction and taking over the world with it, any strange scenarios where you're working multiple factions will be supported eventually, but it's not a priority.
 
It's an interesting issue that I never tested, but I will look at it after when I start testing my latest version for release. I can't imagine how the desk I created could be bypassing anything though. It's simply a reskin of the Conqueror War Planner Desk with a build requirement attached to it. It's no different than if you built multiple of the normal desk in effect.

Again though, I will test it, but like kinggath said, the system isn't fully supported to control multiple factions yet.
 
Alright, that makes sense. Thank you for the replies I will mark the thread as Solved considering the answer I was given.
 
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