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Let's Talk Balance

Given your vision of a typical settlement growth, I don't really see any bad balance issues, other than some of the above mentioned Defense tweaks, in the early to mid stage. I can't say anything about end game, haven't finished a full game using SS yet.
 
I refrain from powering anything but necessities, which functionally are only the Martial plots. Homes, shops, and basic industrial will function without power. This not only reflects the reality that power should be hard to come by, but it also controls upgrades. I think most people see the power symbol and assume "Needs Power", but for those three plot types (Residential, Commercial, Industrial), I'd say it would make more sense to treat those as "Can Be Powered"..

I find this confusing both to read and to watch in game. I suggest that Martial plots should also not require power until upgrading -- if I build a martial plot and send an unassigned settler, he'll be assigned, I'll get the message that he's built security, and when I cursor over the plot it shows 9 defense. But I'm actually at negative defense if it isn't powered, and nothing tells me why! I just ran into this tonight, and it took rereading this post to realize why (I'd remembered your statement that power was something that was hard to get, and not that military was an assumed exception).
 
As far as production, I'm only really looking to nerf if something is broken. For example, if one ammo factory is somehow producing 500 rounds a day - that's a bug. Or if there's a way to shortcut to fatman ammo production and get a high-powered MIRV at level 10, that should probably be resolved.
Ahh yea that makes sense. Tho the fatman is kinda useless as enemies can just hide behind anything and they don't take any damage. Player explosives are blocked by LoS while NPC explosives aren't.
 
I find this confusing both to read and to watch in game. I suggest that Martial plots should also not require power until upgrading -- if I build a martial plot and send an unassigned settler, he'll be assigned, I'll get the message that he's built security, and when I cursor over the plot it shows 9 defense. But I'm actually at negative defense if it isn't powered, and nothing tells me why! I just ran into this tonight, and it took rereading this post to realize why (I'd remembered your statement that power was something that was hard to get, and not that military was an assumed exception).
Requiring power to those is due to an engine limitation. If an object is abled to be powered, it will only provide its benefit if it is powered. :( I try to always find solutions to keep things intuitive, but occasionally my hands are tied by the game for technical reasons.
 
As far as production, I'm only really looking to nerf if something is broken. For example, if one ammo factory is somehow producing 500 rounds a day - that's a bug. Or if there's a way to shortcut to fatman ammo production and get a high-powered MIRV at level 10, that should probably be resolved.

I think the nuclear arms factory produces too many shells. The launchers I'm happy with (especially on survival: they're not worth lugging around).

I think the rate of production would more suit a missile manufactory.
 
Homes, shops, and basic industrial will function without power. This not only reflects the reality that power should be hard to come by, but it also controls upgrades. I think most people see the power symbol and assume "Needs Power", but for those three plot types (Residential, Commercial, Industrial), I'd say it would make more sense to treat those as "Can Be Powered".

That's really interesting. I (and my wife, and my family) always treated power as a "need". Maybe plots will function, but players still want to fill the green bar - and leave plots in an upgradeable state. That's why I previously said the power system is broken - everyone generator-spams, even endgame low INT characters - and JtBryant's Utilities is used as a requirement, rather than an optional addon.

EDIT: Although SS industry can produce power, it's often so late that by the time you get it, you've got 200 gasoline power anyway. Then you may as well save the settler. I think incorporating JtBryant's power plots is the way to go. Perhaps with upgrade paths gated by tech requirements?
 
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It would be nice if we could stumble upon a mercenary outpost that we could hire for caps (weekly chunk of change perhaps?) that could temporarily boost defense to help the early/satellite settlements grow. I always seem to have a caps excess, may as well make me want to spend my money more wisely. I'm using JtBryant's Utilities for the power bank/faction military that has the mercs, which is nice IF you get attacked, which does seem to happen since my defense is still not great. I haven't progressed in a game yet to figure out how to unlock the faction upgrades, too busy trying to figure out earlier stuff.

Turrets are still better of course, they just make the least amount of sense to me. They really should be a luxury/a research reward or something. Maybe go out into the CW and destroy enemy turrets for parts? As a side note for not making sense, the rocket turret needs gun nut rank 3...NOT demolitions expert? If I were a settler, I wouldn't trust someone with an elementary understanding of high explosives to construct an unmanned robotic death pole.

I also still wonder how the provisioner affects things. They take up a house/power to upgrade that house, and presumably a food and water as well, but aren't really *working* in return. Maybe they could come across said mercs while traveling the roads and can send them to your settlements for hiring?

If mercs aren't possible, maybe up the food from ag plots? Start at 4 per plot, so I can assign only 1 farmer at the start, and the other settler can be a guard? Vanilla settlers can harvest up to 6 food to start with, so why is it unreasonable to start with 4? Maybe upgrade to 5-6-8?

Otherwise I may as well skip the martial plots entirely (if I can, barring any other upgrade issues) and have those settlers work elsewhere.
 
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That's really interesting. I (and my wife, and my family) always treated power as a "need". Maybe plots will function, but players still want to fill the green bar - and leave plots in an upgradeable state. That's why I previously said the power system is broken - everyone generator-spams, even endgame low INT characters - and JtBryant's Utilities is used as a requirement, rather than an optional addon.

Even in the base game when I first played, I tended to assume power was a need - if it has a bar it should be positive! That's likely a UI flaw, but it is there. Having not delved into the forums into well after I started playing with Sim Settlements, I didn't know what made plots upgradeable, and since they showed power as required I added it immediately {though in fairness, in Sanctuary stringing in power and replacing the street lights was something I did early on anyway, so that just made powering the plots easier}. I considered industry a late-game option though, similar to commercial, only even later in progress, so they were the last thing to go in, and far back from the rest of town. Even recreation plots were placed earlier.
 
Requiring power to those is due to an engine limitation. If an object is abled to be powered, it will only provide its benefit if it is powered. :( I try to always find solutions to keep things intuitive, but occasionally my hands are tied by the game for technical reasons.
Aggravating. Can you check for power and alter the security built message somehow? Otherwise I think we're back to where we started in this discussion - players will treat power as an all or nothing! I've certainly noted the bar not being at 100 and used the sensor to find the unpowered plots - but I've done so assuming that everything required it out the gate, not realizing that it was required to use at all for martial, but only required to upgrade for residential.
 
Even in the base game when I first played, I tended to assume power was a need - if it has a bar it should be positive! That's likely a UI flaw, but it is there. Having not delved into the forums into well after I started playing with Sim Settlements, I didn't know what made plots upgradeable, and since they showed power as required I added it immediately {though in fairness, in Sanctuary stringing in power and replacing the street lights was something I did early on anyway, so that just made powering the plots easier}. I considered industry a late-game option though, similar to commercial, only even later in progress, so they were the last thing to go in, and far back from the rest of town. Even recreation plots were placed earlier.

I went in with a fresh curiosity (no RTFM) and see that ok, this house is dark and dim, the plot says it needs power so for me to think it won't function without, I must power it. It's not obvious from that perspective to see that it's not totally necessary for residential plots to function. After viewing the breakdown page, I now know how they function, and what upgrading provides, however I wouldn't have learned that without coming to the forums and finding that. Not every player is going to do that-it's probably a pretty big deterrent. They're going to get frustrated and just not use it. I myself only came to the forums to find answers for the problems I'm having, not necessarily to share the joy of the fun I'm having with the mod, showing off what I've made. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying myself, and wish I was here fully for the latter, but at least for me, it's all just a tad confusing to figure out why my settlement isn't functioning as it looks like it should.
 
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I went in with a fresh curiosity (no RTFM) and see that ok, this house is dark and dim, the plot says it needs power so for me to think it won't function without, I must power it. It's not obvious from that perspective to see that it's not totally necessary for residential plots to function. After viewing the breakdown page, I now know how they function, and what upgrading provides, however I wouldn't have learned that without coming to the forums and finding that. Not every player is going to do that-it's probably a pretty big deterrent. They're going to get frustrated and just not use it. I myself only came to the forums to find answers for the problems I'm having, not necessarily to share the joy of the fun I'm having with the mod, showing off what I've made. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying myself, and wish I was here fully for the latter, but at least for me, it's all just a tad confusing to figure out why my settlement isn't functioning as it looks like it should.

The problem for Kinggath is that he's basically created a game within the game. The Fallout 4 UI isn't really designed to support the gameplay of the game he's created so he has to work within the limitations as best he can. He's done a good job of pointing people to the wiki, FAQ and the website for the mod on the Nexus page - and I assume the Bethesda.Net page for XBox users - but, as you say, not everyone is going to bother to go there to learn why things aren't working the way they think they should.

About the only solution I can see is to take a page from Bethesda themselves and build a sort of popup tutorial system. Say when you build your first residential plot you get a popup explaining power needs and the upgrade system. Your first martial plot could explain that this one actually needs power to function and also show what it needs to upgrade. Maybe there could be an option in the wizard system to show/not show these tutorials so that you don't have to go through them with each new game.
 
On the topic of Martial:

What if Martial upgrade requirements were reduced to 1 industrial per level and a certain amount of population required and were given a buff at the low end? This way it's simple variable changes and doesn't introduce any new mechanics to the game.

This should go a long way towards balancing settlement defense so it's more in line with a lower curve on settlement population requirements in mid and late-mid game.
 
1. At what turning point would you be expecting the defense and happiness needs to be met and plots start to advance to lvl 2? It seems like 10 or possibly 15 settlers would be that turning point.

Unless a player is modding their charisma stats, it seems like having the town be in excess production at 15, and a full blown city at 20, seems a little high. I use mods to boost my charisma to 20, but it seems most players wouldn't normally go past 6 at max. Just to get Local Leader. If 15 -20 would be the size required for starting Adv. Industrial and investigating new tech, that would leave out a few players. That might impact some Xbox players as well I believe, since above 13-15 seems to be where they would need to start reducing textures and having possible performance issues. At least that's what it seems like from reading the forums. ...

I can't go over 13 settlers without it crashing. Usually have to keep it around 10.
 
@Aki - The curse of the Xbox! I've gotten up to 20 settlers on my Xbox test save, but I limit myself to 30 plots per settlement and have all of the performance options turned off.
 
30?! I wish. Turned off most of the performance options, and added Nytra's Performance Tweaks - Combined, which helped a lot. It's a delicate balancing act with xb1.

BTW - would you take a look at my bug report? Please? Please? Thank you! : )
 
[QUOTE="Sisca, post: 13953, member: 974"....About the only solution I can see is to take a page from Bethesda themselves and build a sort of popup tutorial system. Say when you build your first residential plot you get a popup explaining power needs and the upgrade system. Your first martial plot could explain that this one actually needs power to function and also show what it needs to upgrade. Maybe there could be an option in the wizard system to show/not show these tutorials so that you don't have to go through them with each new game.[/QUOTE]

Having more information in the mod description would be REALLY helpful. I don't want to logon to another system for info. Load Order is especially important. Actually, now that I think about it, I wish the date the mod was created was added. Can't always tell if I have the most current one.
 
As far as production.... high-powered MIRV at level 10, that should probably be resolved.
You can do this, its just normal min level run stuff. Just a thought on that factory, balance wise, perhaps have it spawn the MIRV mod once and no Fatmen and have it make 1 shell or nuke grenade instead. With the fuel depot I get as many as 3 shells daily....witch is ok, I was doing a CotA run at the time. there are only about 3 places you can get all the factories you need for that built. My problem with it was that I was getting so many fatmen I couldn't sell them all, and you only really need one of the things.
 
Having more information in the mod description would be REALLY helpful. I don't want to logon to another system for info. Load Order is especially important. Actually, now that I think about it, I wish the date the mod was created was added. Can't always tell if I have the most current one.

We don't get nearly enough space on the Bethesda mod descriptions for me to put any useful amount of data, and what we can include is just a wall of text - almost no formatting options. So I opted to link to the website, where I have some control. You don't have to login to get the mod info, the details are all on the wiki: https://simsettlements.com/web/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
 
We don't get nearly enough space on the Bethesda mod descriptions for me to put any useful amount of data, and what we can include is just a wall of text - almost no formatting options. So I opted to link to the website, where I have some control. You don't have to login to get the mod info, the details are all on the wiki: https://simsettlements.com/web/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Understood. Hoping to avoid having to run the console and pc at the same time. Bethesda can be such a pain : )
 
Commenting from a recent play-through and going by my own observations, my apologies if any of this information is wrong as I'm still getting to grips with everything.

I agree with the need for a buff to Martial plots, in larger settlements the need for them becomes too high

Commercial plots seems under-powered compared to the new advanced industrial buildings, with dynamic needs the total amount of Power/Water/Defense that becomes required to get to level 3 commercial plots (when counting the required level 3 residentials) seems not worth it. In comparison I seem to be able to keep my residential plots at level 1 while getting higher level advanced industrial at a fraction of the cost.

Admittedly this is partly due to me keeping residential plots at lower levels by choice but maybe there should be a greater benefit to getting residential/commercial to higher levels. Maybe advanced industrial plots should have a requirement for higher level residential and/or commercial existing before it will upgrade. Another option is to shift the taxes away from advanced industrial completely and increasing them from higher level commercial plots.
 
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