the Sim Settlements forums!

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Question SS Breaking Interior Cell Pathfinding

MrVeeSeeks

New Member
Messages
5
Lengthy post, but wanted to share all the info I have.

I have an issue in which if I have SS active with particular other esps, then AI interior pathfinding breaks in multiple different cells. This results in both Allies & Enemies standing still and idling. If they have guns then they will shoot and they will dodge gunfire, but they will not move forward. If they have melee weapons, I can stand right in front of them and they will not move nor attack.

I have had this same issue twice. The first time, I had removed mods mid-game (I know, frowned upon) and Fallrim showed that I had a very borked save file, so I started over. My current save file has not had a mod removed & yet I run into the same issue.

The first time around, I noticed the issue in Fort Hagen. None of the Synths would come after me, and my companions would not go past the second set of stairs (as in they would not even go the the floor with the synths). If I commanded them to move, they would deny saying that it was unreachable. This issue also happened in the Gwinnett Brewery. I did some testing and discovered that the issue would happen when I had SimSettlements.esm active with either Horizon's Loot Respawn, Horizon Enhanced Settlements, Outcasts & Remnants, Beantown Interiors, or the Caravan Shotgun esps. A few different types of esps yet, when SS was active with any one of those, then all interior AI movement would stop. I checked the NavMesh in CK but (with limited CK skills) did not see an issue. I tried Kinggath's Increase AI count esp but it did not help either.

SimSettlements.esm
BTInteriors_Project.esp
OutcastsAndRemnants.esp
Z_Horizon_Loot_Respawn.esp
Z_Architect_EnhancedSettlements.esp
DP_CaravanShotgun.esp

This time around, I noticed something different. In Cambridge Polymer Labs, the Glowing Feral in the radioactive room will not move while in the water he spawns in, but if I use Get Out Of My Way mod to push him out of the water, he'll move and chase me again UNTIL he either get's into the water crater in the main room or if he goes into the small dip in the testing room where the terminal is. The Ghouls upstairs will chase me downstairs but will also stop moving if they get into the crater or the terminal dip. Molly also would not move after I first entered the building, prior to combat starting. I had to leave the building and comeback in for her to start the orientation but after that she would not lead the tour, so I had to "take care" of her to move forward.

My presumption is something in SS is clashing with something else to cause the AI's to lose their pathing between certain levels/floors levels. I've read that edits to settlement workbenches could cause unknown errors, so that could explain Horizon's Enhanced Settlements, why would Beantown Interiors, or even worse the DP Caravan Shotgun cause issues?

If I reboot he game and load in, I'll have about 5-7 seconds of movement before everyone freezes. Reloading would not fix it, just a reboot and then it would still only be about 5-7 seconds. I've used SKK Script Lag Latency Detector and no Script Lags we're noticed. I've tried ReSaver but any save I do will cause CTD on load. I've tried moving mods around in my mod order but to no luck.

I've exhausted all my knowledge, so any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
HUDFramework.esm
NAC.esm
Homemaker.esm
WorkshopFramework.esm
SimSettlements.esm
Z_Architect.esm
HorizonPatch_sushicid3.esl
WSFW-Horizon-Patch.esl
Zbrn_Horizon_AutoPatch_SimSettlements_TradeAndDoctorPlots.esl
Zbrn_Horizon_AutoPatch_SimSettlements.esl
SimSettlements_XPAC_Conqueror.esp
Homemaker - Streetlights Use Passive Power.esp
ClassicSuperSledge.esl
SKKFastBOS.esp
RaiderOverhaul.esp
MilitarizedMinutemen.esp
MilitarisedMinutemen_PatchesAddon.esp
FO4 NPCs Travel.esp
GoodneighborExpanded.esp
Third Rail Nightclub Update.esp
SOTS.esp
Immersive_Lexington.esp
ImmersiveGunnersPlaza.esp
Minutemen Liberators - MilMin.esp
LongerPowerLines3x.esp
Weapon Rack Extended.esp
SettlementMenuManager.esp
SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearOne.esp
SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearTwo.esp
SimSettlements_CityPlanPack_ContestEntries.esp
UitFJ.esp
Mors Sit Anywhere.esl
PA-Quick Animations.esp
VAFS Redux.esp
VAFS Redux DLC Patch.esp
OutfitSwitcher.esp
EFF.esp
ModdableRobotSettlers.esp
NAC-FarHarbor.esp
NAC-NukaWorld.esp
SAST_NAC Commonwealth Patch.esp
Vivid Fallout - All in One - Best Choice.esp
Quieter Settlements - Contraptions.esp
Quieter Settlements - Vanilla.esp
Quieter Settlements - Wasteland Workshop.esp
SkjAlert_All_DLC.esp
VisibleCompanionAffinity.esp
Immersive HUD.esp
HoloTime.esp
WheelMenu.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
Tactical Flashlights.esp
Tactical Flashlights - Settings.esp
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp
no_pipboy_light.esp
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
UsefulCrank.esp
new_Minutemen_General_Armor.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches.esp
Backpacks of the Commonwealth.esp
WestTekTacticalOptics.esp
CROSS_Cybernetics.esp
CROSS_Jetpack.esp
CROSS_MojaveManhunter.esp
VrexiaEquippableFists.esp
EsturkDogMeat_Skins.esp
K9TacticalHarness.esp
GunnersPlazaInterior.esp
ImmersiveHubCity.esp
ImmersiveV95.esp
ImmersiveBeantown.esp
CovenantComplex.esp
PushAwayCompanions.esp
SleepOrSave.esp
InsideJobs.esp
City of Quincy.esp
RelaySiteAlpha.esp
3DNPC_FO4.esp
3DNPC_FO4Settler.esp
AA FusionCityRising.esp
OutcastsAndRemnants.esp
ProjectValkyrie.esp
FaceMaxson.esp
NoVanillaRadiantDLCLocations.esp
3dscopes-replacer.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp
BetterSettlersMortalPack.esp
BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp
ImmersiveDrumlinDiner.esp
DocDrumlin.esp
CombatZoneRestored.esp
Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp
StartMeUp.esp
Flashy_CrimeAndPunishment.esp
Flashy_CrimeAndPunishment_OAR_Patch.esp
Flashy_CrimeAndPunishment_CrossMM_Patch.esp
Vic's CAP Patch.esp
Z_Horizon.esp
Z_Horizon_Loot_Respawn.esp
Z_Horizon_Loot_Respawn_DLC.esp
Z_Architect_HomePlate.esp
Z_Horizon_DLC_All.esp
Z_Horizon_Desolation.esp
Z_Horizon_DEFUI.esp
Z_Horizon_Optional_ShortNaming.esp
Z_Horizon_StrictCarryWeight.esp
Z_Horizon_Timescale.esp
Z_BlurRemoval.esp
Zbrn_PipboySkillsTab.esp
Zbrn_PipboySkillsTab_Desolation.esp
InsideJobs-HorizonTags.esp
CPAM Fixes.esp
Z_Horizon_CPAM.esp
JamesHorizonAbernathyFarms.esp
JamesHorizonCoastalCottage.esp
JamesHorizonCountyCrossing.esp
JamesHorizonCroupManor.esp
JamesHorizonEgretToursMarina.esp
JamesHorizonFinchFarm.esp
JamesHorizongraygarden.esp
JamesHorizonGreenTopNursery.esp
JamesHorizonhangmanalley.esp
JamesHorizonJamaicaPlains.esp
JamesHorizonKingsportLighthouse.esp
JamesHorizonMurkwoodConstructionSite.esp
JamesHorizonNordhagenBeach.esp
JamesHorizonOberlandStation.esp
JamesHorizonOutpostZimonja.esp
JamesHorizonRedrocket.esp
JamesHorizonSanctuary.esp
JamesHorizonSomersvillePlace.esp
JamesHorizonSpectacleIsland.esp
JamesHorizonStarlight.esp
JamesHorizonSunshineTidings.esp
JamesHorizonTaffingtonBoathouse.esp
JamesHorizonTenpinesbluff.esp
JamesHorizonTheCastle.esp
JamesHorizonTheSlog.esp
JamesHorizonWarwickHomestead.esp
Leaders Of The Commonwealth.esp
Zbrn_SimSettlements_HorizonJobPlots.esp
MilitarizedMinutemen-Horizon_PatchBlue.esp
Cross Cybernetic and Jetpack Fix.esp
HuntingRevolver.esp
GreaseGunSMG.esp
F4NVServiceRifleRedux.esp
M1Garand.esp
M1GarandSkinPacksVol1.esp
F4NV-AMR.esp
RiotShotgun.esp
pipeshotty.esp
ChiappaTripleThreat.esp
LeeEnfieldNo4MkI.esp
Mosin.esp
BullpupBozar.esp
Buzz_Axe.esp
ClassicSuperSledge.esp
3dscopes-replacer-bullpupbozar.esp
3dscopes-replacer-servicerifle.esp
3dscopes-mosin.esp
3dscopes-replacer-leeenfield.esp
EAC-Horizon-Patch.esp
Z_Horizon_WeaponPack01.esp
Z_Horizon_Patch_SMU.esp
Z_Horizon_Patch_CAP.esp
Z_Horizon_Patch_NAC.esp
Z_Horizon_Patch_AnSWBaP.esp
Z_Horizon_Patch_SimSettlements.esp
Zbrn_Horizon_SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearOne.esp
MRS-Horizon-Patch.esp
Z_Horizon_SOTB_Patch.esp
NPCs Travel Horizon Patch.esp
Z_Horizon_Patch_SMM.esp
Patch - Horizon - Tales from the Commonwealth - Crafting - EBF.esp
OAR_Horizon_Patch.esp
PV_Horizon_Patch.esp
FCR_Horizon_Patch.esp
Patch - Horizon - DC Expansion.esp
Horizon 3dscopes-replacer.esp
Horizon 3dscopes-replacer WeaponPack01.esp
HorizonArmorModsArmoryActivator.esp
HorizonTacticalFlashlightsPatch.esp
Patch - Horizon - Settlers of the Commonwealth.esp
OAR Patch.esp
Z_Extras.esp
Z_Architect_Extras.esp
Z_Architect_EnhancedSettlements.esp
Z_Architect_EnhancedSettlements_DLC.esp
Vic's Merged Patch.esp
tempfile2.esp
SKKScriptLatencyTest.esp
 
Yes however I have not uninstalled a mod on this run & my save only has 14 unattached instances. ReSaverScreenShot.png
Likewise, this issue is similar to what was mentioned later in a post titled "Personal Guard stuck", post-84043 (Won't let me post a link) where Phil_T_Casual states that this issue would come up in testing on a full LO, so I believe there's something in Sim Settlements not directly causing the issue, but somehow just isn't playing nicely with a few other mods. I've ran Sim Settlements w/ Conqueror successfully about a year ago (can't recall which version) and this issue was not there.

I've already restarted the game before, and I know if I remove SS from the load order then the game will work fine. I'm just hoping someone will take a look and see if they can replicate the issue somehow since multiple people have reported this issue.

In the mean time I will start creating a another MO2 profile without SS since (as far as I know) that is the only mod causing my issue. I'll keep trying new versions of SS and hopefully one new version will not have this same issue.
 
Yes however I have not uninstalled a mod on this run & my save only has 14 unattached instances.View attachment 8503
Likewise, this issue is similar to what was mentioned later in a post titled "Personal Guard stuck", post-84043 (Won't let me post a link) where Phil_T_Casual states that this issue would come up in testing on a full LO, so I believe there's something in Sim Settlements not directly causing the issue, but somehow just isn't playing nicely with a few other mods. I've ran Sim Settlements w/ Conqueror successfully about a year ago (can't recall which version) and this issue was not there.

I've already restarted the game before, and I know if I remove SS from the load order then the game will work fine. I'm just hoping someone will take a look and see if they can replicate the issue somehow since multiple people have reported this issue.

In the mean time I will start creating a another MO2 profile without SS since (as far as I know) that is the only mod causing my issue. I'll keep trying new versions of SS and hopefully one new version will not have this same issue.

have you made even one City Plan in this game?
 
Lengthy post, but wanted to share all the info I have.
I have an issue in which if I have SS active with particular other esps,
[/SPOILER]

1. I don’t think you have a Sim Settlement problem. Hahahaaha, the reason why it works when you disable SS is because it is easy. More-easy than deactivating all this Horizon stuff.
More likely you have a Scrap Mod, Horizon, I added a CP to a modified settlement problem. Pure speculation?

“Enhanced Settlements. Enhanced Settlements is a fully functional settlementscrapping mod designed for Architect and Horizon This mod is loosely based on Scrap Everything”

This coupled with running:

SimSettlements
City Plans
Conqueror
Horizon
Scrap mods

Some type of touch to most settlements “JamesHorizon” I have no idea what this does or what it is??

2. Given the originality and complexity of what you are doing here only “you the user” can deconflict this load order
a. You will need FO4edit
b. You will need to make time to test and experiment


3. If this scrap mod or this “JamesHorizon” stuff modifies the vanilla scrap profile or touch the vanilla settlement and you add a city plan on top of that? Then Probably, “Game Over” and time to make a choice.


My stab in the dark below:

upload_2020-3-10_10-47-29.png
 
Thank you RayBo for your detailed answer! I really think it will help me moving forward.

I did not think this was solely a Sim Settlements problem. This mod is too well made and too widely used to be the cause of a rarely reported issue like this. I have been working on this for about 1.5 months and I went esp by esp testing to see which combination of esps would break the pathing. I thought it was too easy that removing SS solved everything, and I figured that since SS has such a huge following that someone much more adept than I might could provide insight into why this "worked".

I can definitely see how & why Enhanced Settlements would cause conflicts with SS. I did a lot of testing at Sanctuary & Red Rocket to see if these two could work together but didn't see any issues there. Of course that doesn't mean that conflicts aren't there, and I didn't expect to find issues elsewhere.

I would start Conq with pre-built / per-conquered cities, so that would count as adding a few CPs and i'm sure that a CP was added to a workshop that is edited by ES since ES seems wide spread.

The JamesHorizon CPs are just CPs made with Horizon in mind. I guess they were made by a guy named James but idk. Got them from Nexus, not that that means much but it's not something I found "in the wild".

The one thing I don't understand, and will have to probably chalk it up to "Just cause...." is why does this affect AI Pathing only in interior cells? SS doesn't even touch interior cells but a workshop conflict in the settlements now cause issues in interiors? Why did SS & the Caravan Shotgun, or SS & Outcasts & Remnants cause the issue? Just as you said though, my load order is highly unique so it's probably an issue that is uniquely mine.

Thanks once again everyone for your input. I really love my current mod list so I'll keep tinkering and see if I can figure it out. If I do figure it out, I'll post it incase it can help someone else down the line.
 
Thank you RayBo for your detailed answer! I really think it will help me moving forward.

I did not think this was solely a Sim Settlements problem. This mod is too well made and too widely used to be the cause of a rarely reported issue like this. I have been working on this for about 1.5 months and I went esp by esp testing to see which combination of esps would break the pathing. I thought it was too easy that removing SS solved everything, and I figured that since SS has such a huge following that someone much more adept than I might could provide insight into why this "worked".

I can definitely see how & why Enhanced Settlements would cause conflicts with SS. I did a lot of testing at Sanctuary & Red Rocket to see if these two could work together but didn't see any issues there. Of course that doesn't mean that conflicts aren't there, and I didn't expect to find issues elsewhere.

I would start Conq with pre-built / per-conquered cities, so that would count as adding a few CPs and i'm sure that a CP was added to a workshop that is edited by ES since ES seems wide spread.

The JamesHorizon CPs are just CPs made with Horizon in mind. I guess they were made by a guy named James but idk. Got them from Nexus, not that that means much but it's not something I found "in the wild".

The one thing I don't understand, and will have to probably chalk it up to "Just cause...." is why does this affect AI Pathing only in interior cells? SS doesn't even touch interior cells but a workshop conflict in the settlements now cause issues in interiors? Why did SS & the Caravan Shotgun, or SS & Outcasts & Remnants cause the issue? Just as you said though, my load order is highly unique so it's probably an issue that is uniquely mine.

Thanks once again everyone for your input. I really love my current mod list so I'll keep tinkering and see if I can figure it out. If I do figure it out, I'll post it incase it can help someone else down the line.

Boston interiors maybe, I wouldn’t think so, but...?..

yeah, prebuilts count as city plans.

still it sounds like a mod conflict so unless a smart user with a “near” identical load order chimes in.???.

here is the thing “hypothetical” if the scrap mod conflicts with Boston Interiors you might think “ok” But it actually might be a third mod altogether and what is manifesting it’s just the domino effect. By appearances the third mod should have nothing in common but for whatever reason texture, bad object corrupted file, it does.

It’s happened to all of us that has played the game for any length of time. If you don’t find the conflict in FO4edit then it literally comes down to one by one testing of every esp, esl, esm, and plugless mod, in game to find
the one that’s causing the problem.
 
14 unattached instances for an L6 character with 12 hours of playing.

What are your PC specs?

As I understand it Horizon is a big overhaul. With that and Sim Settlements you may have hit the limit of your PCs handling ability.
 
I am having the same issue as OP. I have tried disabling mods to find out the root cause and even reverting to older versions where I knew pathing in interior cells worked to no avail. Not only do I have interior pathing issues, my settlers are also standing around doing nothing.

2 weeks ago when I was playing, all was fine. I updated SS related stuff and Pack Attack and that's it. Reverting to the older versions does not fix the issue, but removing SS does.

My load order

Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
TrueStormsFO4.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
PANPC.esm
WorkshopFramework.esm
SimSettlements.esm
Homemaker.esm
SSAOP_SamutzVault88.esp
SettlementMenuManager.esp
IndustrialCity_Sim_Settlements_Addon.esp
Ish's Respec Mod.esp
BBS000-F04-Ultimate-DEF_UI.esp
Unofficial Fallout 4 FDI Patch.esp
3DNPC_FO4.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
CraftingFramework.esp
BBS900-COM-AEX-Ultimate-DEF_UI.esp
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
3DNPC_FO4Settler.esp
Mercenary.esp
F4NVServiceRifleRedux.esp
3DNPC_FO4_DLC.esp
WVSimSAddon.esp
AtomicRadio.esp
Factor.esp
ASCOCait03.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
ASCOPiper06.esp
ASCOCurie01.esp
ASCODanse01.esp
ASCOMacCready01.esp
ASCOPreston02.esp
TrueStormsFO4-EarlierSunsets.esp
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarbor.esp
TrueStormsFO4-NukaWorld-FH-Compat.esp
DarkerNights.esp
DarkerNightsDetection.esp
TrueStormsFO4-EarlierSunsetsFH.esp
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarborExtraRads.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Power Armor Carry Capacity.esp
TrueStormsFO4-GlowingSeaExtraRads.esp
EveryonesBestFriend.esp
K9TacticalHarness.esp
TRUBY9.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - AWKCR.esp
dD-Enhanced Blood Basic.esp
CBBE.esp
LooksMenu.esp
Vivid Fallout - All in One - 2k.esp
 
Hi @RayBo

Sorry to randomly '@' you like that but I've been having this issue on my own save and have made some discoveries and I don't know how else to get them noticed or discussed.

So firstly I want to outline how I check for this bug. Right now I load a save, coc to the covenant sewer (CovenantHQ01) or Beantown brewery (BeantownBrewery01) with dogmeat as my companion. I then command dogmeat to move past a certain threshold in each area. Past the first set of doors and onto the catwalk in the brewery/past the first hallway in covenant sewers. (after running a quick 'kah' usually). If dogmeat does the whine/howl and will not move to the point I know that I'm experiencing the bug.

So here is where things get interesting. I have a couple of old saves, in particular, one at the start of the museum of freedom quest, inside. If I load this save first then load my other 'bad' save the ai works fine. I need to test exactly what conditions cause the bug to "resolve" but I really feel like it may have something to do with script load breaking the AI during a load. And let me be clear here, it's not just companion AI, its NPC AI in general. My current 'bad' save is in the ArcJet engine hallway with Danse so I know the AI having trouble because he will just stand around and not proceed down to the bottom of the engine room. Similarly, during the Covenant quest, if I convince Manny to guide me through the sewers he will not. He just stands there, doing nothing.

I will attach some images of my saves in fallrim and my load order and just to cover some common bases.
I have not uninstalled any mods.
I installed and ran conqueror post fishstick, on the vault 111 floor.
I used the conquer prebuilts random options; 70% of settlements, 60-100% populations, level foundation-2.
I do not quicksave or autosave. every save is manual and in the menu.
I have made the papyrus ini changes.

"Bad" save
upload_2020-5-25_2-14-12.png

0 unattached instances
0 undefined instances
0 Formlists containing nullrefs

"fixing" save:
upload_2020-5-25_2-17-42.png

0 unattached instances
0 undefined instances
0 Formlists containing nullrefs

# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
HUDFramework.esm
WorkshopFramework.esm
SimSettlements.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
PANPC.esm
NAC.esm
CanarySaveFileMonitor.esl
AWHD2KFull.esl
SettlementMenuManager.esp
NAC_WET_Patch.esp
NAC-NukaWorld.esp
NAC-FarHarbor.esp
Vivid Fallout - All in One - Best Choice.esp
MaterialSwapFixes.esp
detailedferalghouls2K.esp
Crows&Creatures_V1.esp
CommonwealthChooksAndBunnies.esp
WET.esp
CROSS_GoreCrits.esp
CROSS_GoreCrits_FarHarborPatch.esp
Simple Locational Damage.esp
Immersive HUD.esp
LeverActionReloadOverhaul.esp
PD_LowerWeapon.esp
Faster Terminal Displays (3x).esp
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp
Rusty Face Fix.esp
Be Exceptional.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
Vault-Tec Workshop Overhaul.esp
IndustrialCity_Sim_Settlements_Addon.esp
SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearOne.esp
ruined_simsettlement_addonpack.esp
SimSettlements_CityPlanPack_ContestEntries.esp
WVSimSAddon.esp
SSAOP_SamutzVault88.esp
FP_SimSettlements-Leaderpack.esp
SimSettlements_XPAC_Conqueror.esp
EveryonesBestFriend.esp
AtomicRadio.esp
3DNPC_FO4.esp
3DNPC_FO4_DLC.esp
RaiderOverhaul.esp
W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
Mercenary.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
Raider Overhaul - AE Patch.esp
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
Eli Armor Compendium AE Patch.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp
Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp
BTInteriors_Project.esp
BTInt_Optimization.esp
WZWildWasteland.esp
Some Assembly Required.esp
UniqueUniques.esp
SalvageBeacons.esp
Crossbow.esp
ABundleofTape.esp
DOOMMerged.esp
SkibsWeapons-REDUX.esp
SkibsWeapons_REDUX_CheapTurrets.esp
3dscopes-replacer.esp
SmashPatch.esp
SimpleSortingPatch.esp
FinalConflictResolutionPatch.esp

--------------
I am relatively competent and have removed bad overwrites in the smashed patch (quests, nps, perks). The conflict resolution patch is made by me to fix any remaining conflicts I could identify. Mostly it ensures changes made by Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch are still present as many mods overwrite them.

If there is anything else I can do to further the discussion please let me know. I'm very curious as to why this happens and why loading the old save fixes it. If I had to imagine why I would guess (with my limited knowledge) that the ai tries to mark or path out the loaded zone within a certain area. However something is causing the mesh or ai mapping to fail in these zones. Loading an old save somehow relaxes the load on the scripts or somehow allows forces corrected zones to load.

This post is very long so thank you for your time if you read it.
 
Last edited:
Hi @RayBo

Sorry to randomly '@' you like that but I've been having this issue on my own save and have made some discoveries and I don't know how else to get them noticed or discussed.

So firstly I want to outline how I check for this bug. Right now I load a save, coc to the covenant sewer (CovenantHQ01) or Beantown brewery (BeantownBrewery01) with dogmeat as my companion. I then command dogmeat to move past a certain threshold in each area. Past the first set of doors and onto the catwalk in the brewery/past the first hallway in covenant sewers. (after running a quick 'kah' usually). If dogmeat does the whine/howl and will not move to the point I know that I'm experiencing the bug.

So here is where things get interesting. I have a couple of old saves, in particular, one at the start of the museum of freedom quest, inside. If I load this save first then load my other 'bad' save the ai works fine. I need to test exactly what conditions cause the bug to "resolve" but I really feel like it may have something to do with script load breaking the AI during a load. And let me be clear here, it's not just companion AI, its NPC AI in general. My current 'bad' save is in the ArcJet engine hallway with Danse so I know the AI having trouble because he will just stand around and not proceed down to the bottom of the engine room. Similarly, during the Covenant quest, if I convince Manny to guide me through the sewers he will not. He just stands there, doing nothing.

I will attach some images of my saves in fallrim and my load order and just to cover some common bases.
I have not uninstalled any mods.
I installed and ran conqueror post fishstick, on the vault 111 floor.
I used the conquer prebuilts random options; 70% of settlements, 60-100% populations, level foundation-2.
I do not quicksave or autosave. every save is manual and in the menu.
I have made the papyrus ini changes.

"Bad" save
View attachment 8985
0 unattached instances
0 undefined instances
0 Formlists containing nullrefs

"fixing" save:
View attachment 8986
0 unattached instances
0 undefined instances
0 Formlists containing nullrefs

# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
HUDFramework.esm
WorkshopFramework.esm
SimSettlements.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
PANPC.esm
NAC.esm
CanarySaveFileMonitor.esl
AWHD2KFull.esl
SettlementMenuManager.esp
NAC_WET_Patch.esp
NAC-NukaWorld.esp
NAC-FarHarbor.esp
Vivid Fallout - All in One - Best Choice.esp
MaterialSwapFixes.esp
detailedferalghouls2K.esp
Crows&Creatures_V1.esp
CommonwealthChooksAndBunnies.esp
WET.esp
CROSS_GoreCrits.esp
CROSS_GoreCrits_FarHarborPatch.esp
Simple Locational Damage.esp
Immersive HUD.esp
LeverActionReloadOverhaul.esp
PD_LowerWeapon.esp
Faster Terminal Displays (3x).esp
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp
Rusty Face Fix.esp
Be Exceptional.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
Vault-Tec Workshop Overhaul.esp
IndustrialCity_Sim_Settlements_Addon.esp
SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearOne.esp
ruined_simsettlement_addonpack.esp
SimSettlements_CityPlanPack_ContestEntries.esp
WVSimSAddon.esp
SSAOP_SamutzVault88.esp
FP_SimSettlements-Leaderpack.esp
SimSettlements_XPAC_Conqueror.esp
EveryonesBestFriend.esp
AtomicRadio.esp
3DNPC_FO4.esp
3DNPC_FO4_DLC.esp
RaiderOverhaul.esp
W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
Mercenary.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
Raider Overhaul - AE Patch.esp
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
Eli Armor Compendium AE Patch.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp
Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp
BTInteriors_Project.esp
BTInt_Optimization.esp
WZWildWasteland.esp
Some Assembly Required.esp
UniqueUniques.esp
SalvageBeacons.esp
Crossbow.esp
ABundleofTape.esp
DOOMMerged.esp
SkibsWeapons-REDUX.esp
SkibsWeapons_REDUX_CheapTurrets.esp
3dscopes-replacer.esp
SmashPatch.esp
SimpleSortingPatch.esp
FinalConflictResolutionPatch.esp

--------------
I am relatively competent and have removed bad overwrites in the smashed patch (quests, nps, perks). The conflict resolution patch is made by me to fix any remaining conflicts I could identify. Mostly it ensures changes made by Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch are still present as many mods overwrite them.

If there is anything else I can do to further the discussion please let me know. I'm very curious as to why this happens and why loading the old save fixes it. If I had to imagine why I would guess (with my limited knowledge) that the ai tries to mark or path out the loaded zone within a certain area. However something is causing the mesh or ai mapping to fail in these zones. Loading an old save somehow relaxes the load on the scripts or somehow allows forces corrected zones to load.

This post is very long so thank you for your time if you read it.

It's a great post.
I would likely say all kinds of stuff to try, but being I experienced a total failure of the NPC AI in Codsworth and Dogmeat in a new game recently I will not. It seems like the same bug. It wasn't just interior cells for me, it was all pathing. They would teleport to move. dogmeat mostly just sat next to codsworth and combat AI was also broken.

I rolled back my save trying to duplicate it. I was not able too. So, I am a little bummed that rolling back worked for me "as a fix." It was a new game and similar areas of the map.

I will keep my eye's open when I do the Covenant quest / Beantown brewery.

Right now I would say it could be anything?
I don't know the cause?
Still, dogmeat is a great "source" indicator to tell if someone has encountered it.

Heather did continue to work.

Canary did not trigger so that isn't it.

I did notice it around the 17th of May.

upload_2020-5-25_10-52-13.png


As you have said already rolling back is as far as I got as that fixed it. and I could not duplicate after that.

There was a very narrow band between when they were working and not working.
So, was able to narrow it down to saves between starlight and picking up Heather.
It did take me a while to notice but had all the saves.

I can't say I know the cause? Maybe the thread will give a little insight as others view it?
 
Last edited:
Thank you. If I find anything else out I will post it here. This is a very odd and specific bug (as it only happens in specific cells) and I'm not experienced enough to truly get to the root of the issue.

Hopefully more info will become available when someone else has this same issue. For now I am glad my save is not broken.
 
I am having essentially the same issue. 3 locations are repeatable:Red Rocket, Outpost Zimonja and Greentop Nursery. Probably more, but this is a recently started play thru, so I've been at these 3 more often. Internal and external withn the settlement boundaries. Problem doesn't exist outside the boundary.
Generally I see it when I fast travel to one of these and note all the settlers are standing around. I ask a companion to move to a location, even a few feet from them, they will say "can't get to that" or something similar. All of these are SS city builds except Red Rocket; it has a few SS plots (farm and logistics mostly). The 2 from city plans, if I do a city refresh, will clear up, but only as long as I am there. If I leave and return later, the problem reoccurs; Greentop Nursery has had a happiness level of 11 and lower if I leave without doing the refresh and some time has passed.
Red Rocket wasn't built from a City Plan, so I can't do a refresh, but I've discovered that if I go to Sanctuary and come back, it clears up. I'm walking there and back, so it might be related to fast travel in some way, but I've really not tested it at the other locations.
No odd active scripts (actually it has been zero when I've checked).

^Update: I just noticed that at Red Rocket, where I had cleared up the issue by going to Sanctruary and saved the game, when I started FO4, the problem was back. This time I stepped outside the settlement boundary (across the road in front) and waited a few mins, went back into the Red Rocket area, and it was fine.

Odd problem.
 
Last edited:
I'm also seeing this issue. Notably inside of Arcjet on the "Fire Support Quest" and in the College Square subway station interior. No idea what's causing it, but in testing if I removed SS it cleared right up.. Anyone find a solution for this yet?
 
I'm also seeing this issue. Notably inside of Arcjet on the "Fire Support Quest" and in the College Square subway station interior. No idea what's causing it, but in testing if I removed SS it cleared right up.. Anyone find a solution for this yet?

I mentioned it earlier but I have a bit of a solution to this issue. Personally I have a very old save inside the museum of freedom. If I ever have any issue loading a game or with the AI breaking I can load this save and then load the game and it clears up right away. If I had to guess I would say loading this early save is pretty low intensity on the game engine and probably loads up a bunch of scripts early which reduces engine stress, one of them being the ai pathfinding. Of course, this is all anecdotal so your mileage may vary. To figure out how to find a 'good save' see my post above.
 
I mentioned it earlier but I have a bit of a solution to this issue. Personally I have a very old save inside the museum of freedom. If I ever have any issue loading a game or with the AI breaking I can load this save and then load the game and it clears up right away. If I had to guess I would say loading this early save is pretty low intensity on the game engine and probably loads up a bunch of scripts early which reduces engine stress, one of them being the ai pathfinding. Of course, this is all anecdotal so your mileage may vary. To figure out how to find a 'good save' see my post above.

I'm fairly certain it isn't script lag. I did incremental saves during the onset of the issue once every 30 seconds or so, then pulled them up in ReSaver to see what the script load looked like. At the very highest it only hit 12 active scripts with nothing in the stacks. In most of the save files though, it only hovered around 5 active scripts. I'm currently under the impression that 12 scripts isn't too bad, though I don't have a lot of experience in the matter either. Most videos I've seen mention 20ish being worrisome and to not go up into the 30's or 40's.
 
Top