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Question Mod has broken pathfinding

Andropheonix

New Member
Messages
6
Not sure if it's just me but this mod completely breaks NPC pathfinding. So far I've not been able to get Ada to follow me through the mechanists lair, I've not been able to escape to the elevator with Valentine when you rescue him and now he won't walk to Kellogg's house, each time the situation arises the NPC will walk a bit then just stand in place. Is there a fix? Is this fixed in SS2? I've had to disable the mod which seems to have fixed the issue but I like the mod, sadly it's made my playthrough unplayable (This is also my 1st playthrough). Just FYI, I disabled other mods first, same issue, then I disabled SS1 which also disabled "Simsettlements - Vanilla leaders" and everything worked fine.
 

RayBo

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Not sure if it's just me but this mod completely breaks NPC pathfinding. So far I've not been able to get Ada to follow me through the mechanists lair, I've not been able to escape to the elevator with Valentine when you rescue him and now he won't walk to Kellogg's house, each time the situation arises the NPC will walk a bit then just stand in place. Is there a fix? Is this fixed in SS2? I've had to disable the mod which seems to have fixed the issue but I like the mod, sadly it's made my playthrough unplayable (This is also my 1st playthrough). Just FYI, I disabled other mods first, same issue, then I disabled SS1 which also disabled "Simsettlements - Vanilla leaders" and everything worked fine.

Q:
Not sure if it's just me but this mod completely breaks NPC pathfinding.
A:
First thread I have seen on the issue :scratchhead
+ I have a lot of time over the past few months testing the mod and have never experienced this?

Rereading your post I think I have a suggestion?
Can you watch the below video and come back and post the results?
Good to rule out the number #1 cause of broken save files first.

 

Andropheonix

New Member
Messages
6
Q:

A:
First thread I have seen on the issue :scratchhead
+ I have a lot of time over the past few months testing the mod and have never experienced this?

Rereading your post I think I have a suggestion?
Can you watch the below video and come back and post the results?
Good to rule out the number #1 cause of broken save files first.

Cool, watced it, took a while to locate saves!
So the save that had the issues had 241 unattached instances, 0 active scripts
My recent one with no issues has 255 unattached instances, 2 active scripts
 

ElanaLoaded

Well-Known Member
Messages
878
@RayBo TheResaver video was kinda vague re number of scripts in savegame file. Especially as game progresses. And specifically related to SS2. Might you share from your experience what numbers seem ok, where the red line is? thx very much.
 
Last edited:

ElanaLoaded

Well-Known Member
Messages
878
Not sure if it's just me but this mod completely breaks NPC pathfinding. So far I've not been able to get Ada to follow me through the mechanists lair, I've not been able to escape to the elevator with Valentine when you rescue him and now he won't walk to Kellogg's house, each time the situation arises the NPC will walk a bit then just stand in place. Is there a fix? Is this fixed in SS2? I've had to disable the mod which seems to have fixed the issue but I like the mod, sadly it's made my playthrough unplayable (This is also my 1st playthrough). Just FYI, I disabled other mods first, same issue, then I disabled SS1 which also disabled "Simsettlements - Vanilla leaders" and everything worked fine.
I had Valentine go mute just after escaping to street level. I left and did other things. Came back later - Valentine now responding -all good. It might not be pathfinding, rather lagging scripts.
 

Andropheonix

New Member
Messages
6
I had Valentine go mute just after escaping to street level. I left and did other things. Came back later - Valentine now responding -all good. It might not be pathfinding, rather lagging scripts.
I'd hoped that'd be the case but I ran all the way through the mechanists lair, Ada never passed the 1st set of stairs. Eventually I went back, beat her all the way to the Mechanist stand-off and it bugged, wouldn't start the 4th wave of robots which may also be attributed to the pathfinding issue I have :scratchheadalso, any time I tried to command her to go somewhere well within reach she said she couldn't go there, which made opening the security doors super tedious!
 

ElanaLoaded

Well-Known Member
Messages
878
I'd hoped that'd be the case but I ran all the way through the mechanists lair, Ada never passed the 1st set of stairs. Eventually I went back, beat her all the way to the Mechanist stand-off and it bugged, wouldn't start the 4th wave of robots which may also be attributed to the pathfinding issue I have :scratchheadalso, any time I tried to command her to go somewhere well within reach she said she couldn't go there, which made opening the security doors super tedious!
Had my fingers crossed - sorry I didn't help you.
 

RayBo

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@RayBo TheResaver video was kinda vague re number of scripts in savegame file. Especially as game progresses. And specifically related to SS2. Might you share from your experience what numbers seem ok, where the red line is? thx very much.

:scratchheadI would not say the lines are hard ones, each game and mod-list can be a bit different. That said, once that line is crossed things can go bad quickly.

As it relates to Fo4, Fallrim/Resaver is a "Diagnostic tool" Not a repair tool. You can do minor things like cancel and remove active scripts or clean unattached instances.

I use it here as Triage:

The rule of thumb I use for Active Scripts:
10 or less: At idle
20 or less: Max or Load
20 or more: Too many go idle / or deal with the instability

Active Scripts (AS): This gives a user an idea of how many scripted mods they are using - that are running the most scripts & script load on the game.
If there are too many (AS) it can start to cause problems, & you can either start over with fewer scripted mods, roll back and uninstall them, and/or perform "save file maintenance" (SFM). SFM is: find an internal cell away from settlements. Then find a wall where nothing will happen and do nothing and let the game idle until the active scripts go down. This can take from a few minutes to several "REAL - World" hours. Sleeping isn't how this works, real-world time is.

Unattached Instances: says that the game is looking for things that are no longer there. In Fo4 you can clean them, but it is akin to just hiding the evidence "the damage is already done." No matter what you do here is likely just prolonging the inevitable. Fo4 uses the save file to store game information and is not designed to handle the removal of mods that have been recorded "baked" into that save file. The only way to safely remove a mod is to practice "safe mod discipline" and only remove mod when you can roll back to a point before it was first installed. Things like doing a clean-install during a live game is a lie, and is harmful.
There are rare exceptions that are "exceptions" as examples:
  • Mod tester: can see Unattached Instances when testing unfinished mods
  • Sometimes Fo4 can use Unattached Instances "very few" and removing them will be a problem.
  • Mod Generated: I use one mod that generates (1) Unattached Instance that mod is "Shortcut to Curie." Out of the Thousands of mods I have used in over 6000hrs in game in F04 this is the only mod I know of or use that does this and it is (1) Instance.

Now in the case of this thread.
Active Scripts seem fine at 2> So maybe the save file isn't broken, Yet? :crazy
Unattached Instances 241/255, mods have been removed - it only takes one "the wrong one" to break a game.
Now. sometimes a user will get lucky and do something like remove a clothing item and maybe only get between 2-10 and they might see an NPC with an invisible body or a workbench problem. Maybe a weapon with LL and get 4-15 and have other issues. Thing is, those issues add up and often get worse. Then 30 hours later into the game they add a big mod or make a big update and everything goes to shit. So they blame these problems on that update or new mod. Where the real problem under the surface is that little mod that was removed from that save file 30 hours ago. This is why I a say "Triage."

I can help folks sometimes, but I can't even start to even make a suggestion to fix something like pathfinding when there are 241/255 Unattached Instances.
Mostly, folks would think something like:
- an overhaul or scrap mod issue
- backed-up active scripts "which isn't the case here."
Here it could be anything, but/and NPC AI packages can take forever to reset if "ever."
So, 2 active scripts but 241/255 unattached instances is just a metaphor for: while skinny, you maybe "looking good - but are dying of cancer" :sorry it is just a matter of time.

The cure: The only thing to be done here is to roll the save file back to a point where there is "0" Unattached Instances. Which may be as far back as restarting the entire game and then practicing "safer mod discipline" going forward.

That is it. Sorry for the long/full explanation. :unknw
 
Last edited:

Andropheonix

New Member
Messages
6
:scratchheadI would not say the lines are hard ones, each game and mod-list can be a bit different. That said, once that line is crossed things can go bad quickly.

As it relates to Fo4, Fallrim/Resaver is a "Diagnostic tool" Not a repair tool. You can do minor things like cancel and remove active scripts or clean unattached instances.

I use it here as Triage:

The rule of thumb I use for Active Scripts:
10 or less: At idle
20 or less: Max or Load
20 or more: Too many go idle / or deal with the instability

Active Scripts (AS): This gives a user an idea of how many scripted mods they are using - that are running the most scripts & script load on the game.
If there are too many (AS) it can start to cause problems, & you can either start over with fewer scripted mods, roll back and uninstall them, and/or perform "save file maintenance" (SFM). SFM is: find an internal cell away from settlements. Then find a wall where nothing will happen and do nothing and let the game idle until the active scripts go down. This can take from a few minutes to several "REAL - World" hours. Sleeping isn't how this works, real-world time is.

Unattached Instances: says that the game is looking for things that are no longer there. In Fo4 you can clean them, but it is akin to just hiding the evidence "the damage is already done." No matter what you do here is likely just prolonging the inevitable. Fo4 uses the save file to store game information and is not designed to handle the removal of mods that have been recorded "baked" into that save file. The only way to safely remove a mod is to practice "safe mod discipline" and only remove mod when you can roll back to a point before it was first installed. Things like doing a clean-install during a live game is a lie, and is harmful.
There are rare exceptions that are "exceptions" as examples:
  • Mod tester: can see Unattached Instances when testing unfinished mods
  • Sometimes Fo4 can use Unattached Instances "very few" and removing them will be a problem.
  • Mod Generated: I use one mod that generates (1) Unattached Instance that mod is "Shortcut to Curie." Out of the Thousands of mods I have used in over 6000hrs in game in F04 this is the only mod I know of or use that does this and it is (1) Instance.

Now in the case of this thread.
Active Scripts seem fine at 2> So maybe the save file isn't broken, Yet? :crazy
Unattached Instances 241/255, mods have been removed - it only takes one "the wrong one" to break a game.
Now. sometimes a user will get lucky and do something like remove a clothing item and maybe only get between 2-10 and they might see an NPC with an invisible body or a workbench problem. Maybe a weapon with LL and get 4-15 and have other issues. Thing is, those issues add up and often get worse. Then 30 hours later into the game they add a big mod or make a big update and everything goes to shit. So they blame these problems on that update or new mod. Where the real problem under the surface is that little mod that was removed from that save file 30 hours ago. This is why I a say "Triage."

I can help folks sometimes, but I can't even start to even make a suggestion to fix something like pathfinding when there are 241/255 Unattached Instances.
Mostly, folks would think something like:
- an overhaul or scrap mod issue
- backed-up active scripts "which isn't the case here."
Here it could be anything, but/and NPC AI packages can take forever to reset if "ever."
So, 2 active scripts but 241/255 unattached instances is just a metaphor for: while skinny, you maybe "looking good - but are dying of cancer" :sorry it is just a matter of time.

The cure: The only thing to be done here is to roll the save file back to a point where there is "0" Unattached Instances. Which may be as far back as restarting the entire game and then practicing "safer mod discipline" going forward.

That is it. Sorry for the long/full explanation. :unknw
Ah, looks like I've brought this upon my self then!

First time using mods so I assumed the load order that appeared in LOOT would be fine, a bit off topic but my current load order is:

Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
DLCUltraHighResolution.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm 8.6.0
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp 2.1.3
SimSettlements.esm 4.2.9b
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Ballistic Weave.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Power Armor Carry Capacity.esp
ModelRobotDisplay.esp
NukaColaDisplayStand.esp
More Where That Came From Diamond City.esp
AWKCR - Mod Power Armor Engine Glitch Fix.esp 7.8
clothingoverhaul.esp 1.4
ClothingOverhaulSP_XB1_PC.esp 1.4
Consistent Power Armor Overhaul.esp 1.1a
FunctionalDisplays-Collectibles.esp 1.0
FunctionalDisplays.esp 1.0
FunctionalDisplays-AID-VIS.esp 1.0

I plan to play through again if I manage to finish this run through (probably swapping SS1 for SS2), will this give me issues 2nd time around?

Come to think of it, I did play about 2 hours of the game on a different PC using the same save but with only 2 of the mods, so that could well be my downfall...
 

Captain LaserBeam

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Verified Builder
Messages
414
Ah, looks like I've brought this upon my self then!

First time using mods so I assumed the load order that appeared in LOOT would be fine, a bit off topic but my current load order is:

Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
DLCUltraHighResolution.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm 8.6.0
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp 2.1.3
SimSettlements.esm 4.2.9b
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Ballistic Weave.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Power Armor Carry Capacity.esp
ModelRobotDisplay.esp
NukaColaDisplayStand.esp
More Where That Came From Diamond City.esp
AWKCR - Mod Power Armor Engine Glitch Fix.esp 7.8
clothingoverhaul.esp 1.4
ClothingOverhaulSP_XB1_PC.esp 1.4
Consistent Power Armor Overhaul.esp 1.1a
FunctionalDisplays-Collectibles.esp 1.0
FunctionalDisplays.esp 1.0
FunctionalDisplays-AID-VIS.esp 1.0

I plan to play through again if I manage to finish this run through (probably swapping SS1 for SS2), will this give me issues 2nd time around?

Come to think of it, I did play about 2 hours of the game on a different PC using the same save but with only 2 of the mods, so that could well be my downfall...
To be fair - this (ada not pathfinding) used to happen to me all the time running Vanilla Fallout 4 back when I played it on PS4 when it came out, so it may just be bad luck.
 

ElanaLoaded

Well-Known Member
Messages
878
:scratchheadI would not say the lines are hard ones, each game and mod-list can be a bit different. That said, once that line is crossed things can go bad quickly.

As it relates to Fo4, Fallrim/Resaver is a "Diagnostic tool" Not a repair tool. You can do minor things like cancel and remove active scripts or clean unattached instances.

I use it here as Triage:

The rule of thumb I use for Active Scripts:
10 or less: At idle
20 or less: Max or Load
20 or more: Too many go idle / or deal with the instability

Active Scripts (AS): This gives a user an idea of how many scripted mods they are using - that are running the most scripts & script load on the game.
If there are too many (AS) it can start to cause problems, & you can either start over with fewer scripted mods, roll back and uninstall them, and/or perform "save file maintenance" (SFM). SFM is: find an internal cell away from settlements. Then find a wall where nothing will happen and do nothing and let the game idle until the active scripts go down. This can take from a few minutes to several "REAL - World" hours. Sleeping isn't how this works, real-world time is.

Unattached Instances: says that the game is looking for things that are no longer there. In Fo4 you can clean them, but it is akin to just hiding the evidence "the damage is already done." No matter what you do here is likely just prolonging the inevitable. Fo4 uses the save file to store game information and is not designed to handle the removal of mods that have been recorded "baked" into that save file. The only way to safely remove a mod is to practice "safe mod discipline" and only remove mod when you can roll back to a point before it was first installed. Things like doing a clean-install during a live game is a lie, and is harmful.
There are rare exceptions that are "exceptions" as examples:
  • Mod tester: can see Unattached Instances when testing unfinished mods
  • Sometimes Fo4 can use Unattached Instances "very few" and removing them will be a problem.
  • Mod Generated: I use one mod that generates (1) Unattached Instance that mod is "Shortcut to Curie." Out of the Thousands of mods I have used in over 6000hrs in game in F04 this is the only mod I know of or use that does this and it is (1) Instance.

Now in the case of this thread.
Active Scripts seem fine at 2> So maybe the save file isn't broken, Yet? :crazy
Unattached Instances 241/255, mods have been removed - it only takes one "the wrong one" to break a game.
Now. sometimes a user will get lucky and do something like remove a clothing item and maybe only get between 2-10 and they might see an NPC with an invisible body or a workbench problem. Maybe a weapon with LL and get 4-15 and have other issues. Thing is, those issues add up and often get worse. Then 30 hours later into the game they add a big mod or make a big update and everything goes to shit. So they blame these problems on that update or new mod. Where the real problem under the surface is that little mod that was removed from that save file 30 hours ago. This is why I a say "Triage."

I can help folks sometimes, but I can't even start to even make a suggestion to fix something like pathfinding when there are 241/255 Unattached Instances.
Mostly, folks would think something like:
- an overhaul or scrap mod issue
- backed-up active scripts "which isn't the case here."
Here it could be anything, but/and NPC AI packages can take forever to reset if "ever."
So, 2 active scripts but 241/255 unattached instances is just a metaphor for: while skinny, you maybe "looking good - but are dying of cancer" :sorry it is just a matter of time.

The cure: The only thing to be done here is to roll the save file back to a point where there is "0" Unattached Instances. Which may be as far back as restarting the entire game and then practicing "safer mod discipline" going forward.

That is it. Sorry for the long/full explanation. :unknw
Actually, is very helpful. Appreciate the time you spent composing your response. :)
 

Lowjax

Active Member
Messages
257
To be fair - this (ada not pathfinding) used to happen to me all the time running Vanilla Fallout 4 back when I played it on PS4 when it came out, so it may just be bad luck.
Same, especially the special doors in there that she has to open. It was bad enough so every time I approached one I had to save, have her open it, save, exit reload. About a 50-50 chance she could pass through, if not, I'd have to reload to before she opened it and repeat. I think she managed to pass through one without issue, once.

This was straight vanilla with no mods ever installed (before even downloading any mods.) So, Ada in mechanist lair, not a good point to look at for problems with a mod.

Try installing a sandbox mod and run it near the bottom of the load list (just above any scraping mods if you have them.)
 

Andropheonix

New Member
Messages
6
Same, especially the special doors in there that she has to open. It was bad enough so every time I approached one I had to save, have her open it, save, exit reload. About a 50-50 chance she could pass through, if not, I'd have to reload to before she opened it and repeat. I think she managed to pass through one without issue, once.

This was straight vanilla with no mods ever installed (before even downloading any mods.) So, Ada in mechanist lair, not a good point to look at for problems with a mod.

Try installing a sandbox mod and run it near the bottom of the load list (just above any scraping mods if you have them.)
I appreciate that, that's why I also mentioned the 2 issues I had with Valentine which didn't exist after disabling the mod. Doesn't matter, I've moved to SS2 now, managed to walk straight through The Mechanists lair with Ada and with no issues :)
 

ElanaLoaded

Well-Known Member
Messages
878
:scratchheadI would not say the lines are hard ones, each game and mod-list can be a bit different. That said, once that line is crossed things can go bad quickly.

As it relates to Fo4, Fallrim/Resaver is a "Diagnostic tool" Not a repair tool. You can do minor things like cancel and remove active scripts or clean unattached instances.

I use it here as Triage:

The rule of thumb I use for Active Scripts:
10 or less: At idle
20 or less: Max or Load
20 or more: Too many go idle / or deal with the instability

Active Scripts (AS): This gives a user an idea of how many scripted mods they are using - that are running the most scripts & script load on the game.
If there are too many (AS) it can start to cause problems, & you can either start over with fewer scripted mods, roll back and uninstall them, and/or perform "save file maintenance" (SFM). SFM is: find an internal cell away from settlements. Then find a wall where nothing will happen and do nothing and let the game idle until the active scripts go down. This can take from a few minutes to several "REAL - World" hours. Sleeping isn't how this works, real-world time is.

Unattached Instances: says that the game is looking for things that are no longer there. In Fo4 you can clean them, but it is akin to just hiding the evidence "the damage is already done." No matter what you do here is likely just prolonging the inevitable. Fo4 uses the save file to store game information and is not designed to handle the removal of mods that have been recorded "baked" into that save file. The only way to safely remove a mod is to practice "safe mod discipline" and only remove mod when you can roll back to a point before it was first installed. Things like doing a clean-install during a live game is a lie, and is harmful.
There are rare exceptions that are "exceptions" as examples:
  • Mod tester: can see Unattached Instances when testing unfinished mods
  • Sometimes Fo4 can use Unattached Instances "very few" and removing them will be a problem.
  • Mod Generated: I use one mod that generates (1) Unattached Instance that mod is "Shortcut to Curie." Out of the Thousands of mods I have used in over 6000hrs in game in F04 this is the only mod I know of or use that does this and it is (1) Instance.

Now in the case of this thread.
Active Scripts seem fine at 2> So maybe the save file isn't broken, Yet? :crazy
Unattached Instances 241/255, mods have been removed - it only takes one "the wrong one" to break a game.
Now. sometimes a user will get lucky and do something like remove a clothing item and maybe only get between 2-10 and they might see an NPC with an invisible body or a workbench problem. Maybe a weapon with LL and get 4-15 and have other issues. Thing is, those issues add up and often get worse. Then 30 hours later into the game they add a big mod or make a big update and everything goes to shit. So they blame these problems on that update or new mod. Where the real problem under the surface is that little mod that was removed from that save file 30 hours ago. This is why I a say "Triage."

I can help folks sometimes, but I can't even start to even make a suggestion to fix something like pathfinding when there are 241/255 Unattached Instances.
Mostly, folks would think something like:
- an overhaul or scrap mod issue
- backed-up active scripts "which isn't the case here."
Here it could be anything, but/and NPC AI packages can take forever to reset if "ever."
So, 2 active scripts but 241/255 unattached instances is just a metaphor for: while skinny, you maybe "looking good - but are dying of cancer" :sorry it is just a matter of time.

The cure: The only thing to be done here is to roll the save file back to a point where there is "0" Unattached Instances. Which may be as far back as restarting the entire game and then practicing "safer mod discipline" going forward.

That is it. Sorry for the long/full explanation. :unknw
Happy to learn from someone in the know. Thank you so much!
 
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