Solved It's the "can't fly" bug again

[dferstat]

Ok, so I installed W+ on my main toon's game, and it's (of course) a godsend. Well, until it stopped working a little while back.

I don't know when it stopped working, as for a while I was having a break from building settlements, and was adventuring instead.

Now, I can see a few threads here discussing this issue, but with no clear (to me) solution that applies to my situation.

I'm not running Sim Settlements on this game, and W+ is loaded after WSFW. I'm running Vortex, and letting it sort the mods. I've tried to turn of flight through the MCM menu, and then re-enable it, to no effect. I haven't used a jetpack in this game.

Now, I've enabled W+ on another toon's game, and it works fine. (Makes me feel quite nostalgic, with all that useful, and fun, swooping about placing things. )

Ergo, I'm presuming that I've got a mod conflict somewhere. But, if so, I've got no idea what it might be, or how I might find it.

Alec is able to use W+, but Charlie can't.

Any help will be appreciated.

 

[RayBo]

Ok, so I installed W+ on my main toon's game, and it's (of course) a godsend. Well, until it stopped working a little while back.

I don't know when it stopped working, as for a while I was having a break from building settlements, and was adventuring instead.

Now, I can see a few threads here discussing this issue, but with no clear (to me) solution that applies to my situation.

I'm not running Sim Settlements on this game, and W+ is loaded after WSFW. I'm running Vortex, and letting it sort the mods. I've tried to turn of flight through the MCM menu, and then re-enable it, to no effect. I haven't used a jetpack in this game.

Now, I've enabled W+ on another toon's game, and it works fine. (Makes me feel quite nostalgic, with all that useful, and fun, swooping about placing things. )

Ergo, I'm presuming that I've got a mod conflict somewhere. But, if so, I've got no idea what it might be, or how I might find it.

Alec is able to use W+, but Charlie can't.

Any help will be appreciated.

hummm, will you did a good thing.
You have a comparison, so half the battle.
Disable anything in “C” that isn’t in “A”.

if that fixes “C” then you have your suspect mods. Slowly enable them until you find the culprit.

if that match back does not fix it, then you had a glitch in “C” that you haven’t had in “A”. If that is the case it probably caused save file corruption so you will want to roll back your save in “C” to the point where it last worked.

all this if I am understanding.

if I am not then you know the drill. The fact that it worked before also says “what mods did you add while off adventuring?”

this may help, but like I said I think you already are halfway there.

 

[dferstat]

RayBo, thanks for your reponse. I confess I was hoping that someone would see something (to them) blindingly obvious, but, like Sir Mick observed, you can't always get what you want.

So, I started some testing, and it looks like I got a result sooner than I expected.

Using the following load order on a test toon, W+ will not let me fly in workshop mode.

Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
DLCUltraHighResolution.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
WorkshopFramework.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
LegendaryModification.esp
More Power Armour Mods.esp
LegendaryModification - DLC Far Harbor.esp
LegendaryModification2LM.esp
LegendaryModification - DLC Far Harbor (2LM).esp
LegendaryModification2LMAKPatch.esp
LegendaryModificationCSA.esp
LegendaryModificationMisc.esp
WorkshopPlus.esp
PAMAP.esp
More Power Armour Mods - Automatron.esp
BreakheartMCSvanilla.esp

However, if I remove the last one, BreakheartMCSvanilla.esp (from Mighty Clean Settlements - Breakheart Banks / nexusmods: /fallout4/mods/41342), flight is restored.


Stripping mods down as low as I can go, to just:

WorkshopFramework.esm
WorkshopPlus.esp
BreakheartMCSvanilla.esp

I get the same result. With BreakheartMCSvanilla.esp I can't fly while in workshop mode, without it, I can.


Now, I presume from this that the Breakheart file overwrites something in W+, but I've no way to find out what. I don't know how to use FO4Edit, nor do I know what to look for.

 

[RayBo]

Here is the thing.

Once enabled a “settlement workshop” you can “never ever” uninstall or disable and move forward in your save file. There is no middle ground, no luck, and no editing that will change that. At least that I know of. These are not my words but the words of the master authors of alternative settlements.

Even when I wish to use one, I only enable them when I am ready to make a controlled save and test them. Workshops need to be setup correctly, so not as much an overwrite as all the connections and links. Sure overwriting is a concern but far from the only issue with workshops.

Some do need to be tested in a fresh game. In that case I make an entirely new profile to test.

Given the absoluteness of what I am saying. You must always test a location in your load order.

MightyNine is not a Sim Settlement author.

I use:
Breakheart Banks - Settlement.
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/38059

There are only a few authors I routinely trust for alternative settlement workshops, three of them are SS authors, Neeher is one of the most respected authors on the nexus.
fftfan.
Pra
Yagichan
Neeher

there are a couple more “and they are more overhauls not new, but I am on mobile so typing is a pain.

The way I see it, you have 3 choices:
1 - play forward and don’t fly
2 - start a new game, and test the alternative workshops
3 - roll back the save file to a point before installing the MightyNine mod

sorry man. I feel the pain but with alternative workshop locations there’s no tricks or easy compromises.

then again, I might be full of shit and maybe you’re really lucky.

:mosking

A pra quote below. I feel this should be a mandatory stamp on any workshop location mod. Perfectly worded.

Installation
Make sure you have a save you can go back to in case this mod doesn't work! If you have saved your game with a settlement mod installed, you can never ever ever uninstall that settlement mod, without destroying your save!
No, saving in an interior, uninstalling the mod, loading the game, will NOT clean the save!

• 
  
  • Save somewhere away from the affected location. Maybe in one of the interiors at Nuka Town.
  • Install the mod. Put it somewhere low in your load order. If there is a conflict with a settlement mod, the settlement mod must win!
  • Test the settlement! Make sure happiness is at 50, the map marker displays it, you can actually build, settlers appear, etc. See also this article.
  • If it doesn't work properly, go back to the previous save!

Below is a testing video I did for one of @VersusXV ‘s

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[dferstat]

Yup. I was pretty much resigned to having to wind my game back to an earlier save. It's the three weeks and 12 levels I'm about to lose I find depressing.

I'm going to have to follow your advice and try new settlments first in a test game.

I had noted the Breakheart Banks settlement mod you refer to, but passed on it because of the reported difficulties in scrapping, and in setting up vanilla supply lines. (Remember, I'm not using Sim Settlements).

Thanks again for your help.

 

[parrotheada1a]

Yup. I was pretty much resigned to having to wind my game back to an earlier save. It's the three weeks and 12 levels I'm about to lose I find depressing.

I'm going to have to follow your advice and try new settlments first in a test game.

I had noted the Breakheart Banks settlement mod you refer to, but passed on it because of the reported difficulties in scrapping, and in setting up vanilla supply lines. (Remember, I'm not using Sim Settlements).

Thanks again for your help.

One other minor point... you can get glitches & bugs like this from other mods that have long since been deleted from the game. Sometimes all it takes is a mere reference in the game's software to cause it. It's always totally random, and you can almost never reproduce it. The dominoes need to line up exactly in the right way.

About the only way I know of to get rid of stuff like this is a complete re-install from scratch. You can't use old savegames/ presets that you used before because the code causing the problem could be baked into them.

 

[dferstat]

Oh, unless the mod author gives uninstall instructions, I assume that you can't safely remove a mod. So I don't.

That's one of the reasons why my main toon (currently level 87) has more that 450 save game files.

 

[RayBo]

Oh, unless the mod author gives uninstall instructions, I assume that you can't safely remove a mod. So I don't.

That's one of the reasons why my main toon (currently level 87) has more that 450 save game files.

Unless we are talking about some f4se mods or some textures there is really no such a thing as "safe uninstall instructions" or the infamous "clean save."

You may find other things work better if you clean-out that save folder. Just save those old saves in another directory. "keep them"

Funny thing, at level 87 I would have thousands of saves. :mosking so that 2d directory for old saves is a good thing.

 

[dferstat]

I raised it with the mod author, MightyNINE who advised:

"its bc the original pack when the kit packed it included the vanilla Workshop Script. This problem was fixed in the Murkwater Construction AIO update."

Oh, and "thousands of saves"? Damn show off!

Seriously, given that Vortex will only show the most recent 200 saves, backing up the older ones sounds sensible. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[snarkhunter]

FYI: I ran into a similar problem today with the Mighty Clean Settlements Oberland Station mod. I used the Fallout4/Tools/Archive2/Archive2.exe utility to open the .BA2 file for this mod, and found several vanilla .pex files listed in the SCRIPTS/ directory, including workshopscript.pex and workshopobject.pex. I removed all these vanilla scripts from the .BA2 file. After this, Workshop Plus flying started working for me again at all my settlements.

Edit: may have spoken too soon here. See my updated reply further down this thread.

 

[Whisper]

Your game is irrevocably busted after installing the dodgy settlement mod. The only fix is to go back to a save from before installing that problem Settlement.

As has been said, uninstalling a settlement mod mid-playthrough is bad - it corrupts the workshop array. Effectively the game thinks that the workshop is still there every time it attempts to update food/water/happiness/etc.

@snarkhunter has a slightly different issue - I have experienced it myself. It turned out that I was running the vanilla workshop script (last one loaded wins!) and was having all sorts of happiness problems etc.

Removing the dodgy script made the game go absolutely haywire. Scripts backing up like mad, etc. I talked with Kinggath and he said that swapping workshop scripts like that will definitely break things.

So both are a fast-track to Sayonara-City for a game.

@RayBo an addition to your BaGS series? I’m thinking about another addition to my Load Order Exploration too. As mod-users it might become a “standard practice” to check for unneeded added scripts in the mods we use.

 

[1ae0bfb8]

Your game is irrevocably busted after installing the dodgy settlement mod. The only fix is to go back to a save from before installing that problem Settlement.

As has been said, uninstalling a settlement mod mid-playthrough is bad - it corrupts the workshop array. Effectively the game thinks that the workshop is still there every time it attempts to update food/water/happiness/etc.

@snarkhunter has a slightly different issue - I have experienced it myself. It turned out that I was running the vanilla workshop script (last one loaded wins!) and was having all sorts of happiness problems etc.

Removing the dodgy script made the game go absolutely haywire. Scripts backing up like mad, etc. I talked with Kinggath and he said that swapping workshop scripts like that will definitely break things.

So both are a fast-track to Sayonara-City for a game.

@RayBo an addition to your BaGS series? I’m thinking about another addition to my Load Order Exploration too. As mod-users it might become a “standard practice” to check for unneeded added scripts in the mods we use.

this is a great idea.

 

[dferstat]

...
@snarkhunter has a slightly different issue - I have experienced it myself. It turned out that I was running the vanilla workshop script (last one loaded wins!) and was having all sorts of happiness problems etc.

...

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how they're different. Both snarkhunter and I are using mods which have vanilla scripts included in error. They're both from the same author, so I suspect we're talking about the same scripts. Snarkhuunter reports that W+ functionality was restored by editing out the vanilla scripts.

 

[snarkhunter]

@dferstat, removing the vanilla scripts from the .BA2 file did indeed restore W+ flying for my character, but as Whisper predicted, this workaround ended up fixing one issue only to cause another. After I took out the scripts, settlement happiness progress at all my settlements froze and would not progress any further.

As I didn't want to completely lose all progress made in building up my settlements, I used Transfer Settlements to export blueprints from my completed settlements, and then reverted to an earlier save (made before installing Mighty Clean Settlements Oberland Station), and then re-imported my completed settlement TS blueprints into that.

Since playing forward from there, happiness has progressed normally, and W+ flying has worked too since that MCS mod is no longer installed. I have had to re-upgrade all my plots at the imported settlements ( by the way, this mod really helps speed that along ) but it was still faster than rebuilding from scratch.

 

[RayBo]

@dferstat, removing the vanilla scripts from the .BA2 file did indeed restore W+ flying for my character, but as Whisper predicted, this workaround ended up fixing one issue only to cause another. After I took out the scripts, settlement happiness progress at all my settlements froze and would not progress any further.

As I didn't want to completely lose all progress made in building up my settlements, I used Transfer Settlements to export blueprints from my completed settlements, and then reverted to an earlier save (made before installing Mighty Clean Settlements Oberland Station), and then re-imported my completed settlement TS blueprints into that.

Since playing forward from there, happiness has progressed normally, and W+ flying has worked too since that MCS mod is no longer installed. I have had to re-upgrade all my plots at the imported settlements ( by the way, this mod really helps speed that along ) but it was still faster than rebuilding from scratch.

HA! This folk's is how you play Fo4 at a high level.
The in-game play is one game.
The logic of the technical game is the other.

 

[Whisper]

@dferstat I got the impression that you could roll back to an earlier save to fix things much easier than @snarkhunter could. That was what I meant as the difference between the both of your games.

Yes, definitely the same base issue involved for you both.

Snarkhunter it is good (ugh, "good" in some ways only, hah!) to have it confirmed by other's experience that the messed-up game occurs when you end up with mixed workshop scripts and remove the "problem" one(s).