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If I had a Hammer - Feedback - Reduce Requirements

W

Wasteland_Survivor

Active Member
Messages
197
I think having 8 plot types only consisting of Agriculture and Industry only is excessive
Because you don't get access to Commercial \ Security \ Recreational \ Government

I think requirements of quest should be changed
Phase 1
5 -> 3
Phase 2
8 -> 4

Or at least Security and Commerical should at least be unlocked earlier
 
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You do get "Martial" (at least at 1x1 size) a little earlier now, but it seems that having such a mass of plots so early is a deliberate design choice that is MEANT to make you know how many Industrials you will "need" to play the mod how it was clearly intended - since you only need 1 or 2 Ag plots at that stage to feed everyone.
I have not yet seen anyone outside the core team that both agrees with this decision and thinks it is implemented well as a tutorial element, though.
 
yaugieLC said:
You do get "Martial" (at least at 1x1 size) a little earlier now, but it seems that having such a mass of plots so early is a deliberate design choice that is MEANT to make you know how many Industrials you will "need" to play the mod how it was clearly intended - since you only need 1 or 2 Ag plots at that stage to feed everyone.
I have not yet seen anyone outside the core team that both agrees with this decision and thinks it is implemented well as a tutorial element, though.
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So you are saying you need 2 Agriculture and 6 Industrial early game?

You don't even have a Commerical Plot to move that industry into - till signficantly later.
Nor do you have a Communication plot type to move goods to other settlements networks until significantly later.

If anything the 8 plot requirement should only be after you unlock security and commericial.
The other option is to Unlock Communication Plot type significantly earlier - Since Trade Caravans have been existing for quite a while.
 
Wasteland_Survivor said:
You don't even have a Commerical Plot to move that industry into - till signficantly later.
Nor do you have a Communication plot type to move goods to other settlements networks until significantly later.
Click to expand...
I think the intent is to make sure you have enough Building Materials at the very least (since that unlocks quite easily) so you can start building more plots without having to worry about them eating all your own supplies out of the workbench. It's just very poorly communicated, something I've been saying for a whole year now. And you can always move people off those assignments later once you do unlock the other types.
 
Wasteland_Survivor said:
I think having 8 plot types only consisting of Agriculture and Industry only is excessive
Because you don't get access to Commercial \ Security \ Recreational \ Government

I think requirements of quest should be changed
Phase 1
5 -> 3
Phase 2
8 -> 4

Or at least Security and Commerical should at least be unlocked earlier
Click to expand...
If you don't like the requirements for the quest you are free to create an add on in order to change it.
All of the tools area available for free and if your computer (based on your user profile) can run FO4 it can run the Creation Kit.
 
I came to SS2 a few weeks ago because I was interested in using some of the tools for a mod I'm making. Although I've made mods for TES games, FO3, FNV and FO4 I took up SS2 with as close as I could to a beginner's mind. The tutorial so far is a great accomplishment. I suggest that some added dialog like: "Right now, you're going to need roughly this many of this plot and this many of that plot for every X number of settlers," would do wonders. As it is, I'd bet that this is where player engagement gets shot through the heart.
In the first act all my my noob self knows is that I don't want to make any fatal decisions and that the supply of ASAMs is limited. Yes, the answers are there if you want to go to the Wiki or drill down through the various menus. The folks here are beyond helpful, too. I think that SS2 would be better served if these things were made more clear in-game.
 
MoreThanKelp said:
As it is, I'd bet that this is where player engagement gets shot through the heart.
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The frankly woeful "explanations" and "tutorials" for the actual mechanics and intended progression curve are by far the most common non-bug issue people have mentioned with the mod. Even once you allow for the fact it is meant to feel like a puzzle with no instructions, and after a full year of tinkering (including opening the mod up in the CK), I still havent seen several whole plot subtypes in a non-cheated save myself.

(second most commonly raised issue is a lack of return on player investment in terms of rewards, but i will get yelled at again for even bringing that up)
 
yaugieLC said:
(second most commonly raised issue is a lack of return on player investment in terms of rewards, but i will get yelled at again for even bringing that up)
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I don't know anything about programming so feel free to tell me it's dumb/won't work, but this goes right along with a plot idea i pitched in a discord earlier. I think this could be remedied in a non game breaking way through the production plots. Namely the "Machine Shop" plot i thought of. I'll put it in the suggestions section and elaborate there. (i think that would be the place for it.)
 
I do have my own "additional rewards" thing half crafted, but I am waiting til I am able to get a decent percentage of Ch2 finished to see what they added to the core mod before I do any more on it.
 
Wasteland_Survivor said:
Nor do you have a Communication plot type to move goods to other settlements networks until
Click to expand...
Short question: So i need the Caravan plot in two settlements so that B can use the Industry goods produced in A's Industry plots to Upgrade their Plots too?

I tought this stuff is shared by the Workshop and "vanilla" Caravans too.
 
Wasteland_Survivor said:
That's the weirdest part of the mod - you make this big city but the only real reward is basically cosmetic.
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Thats why i tought i could enter the SS2 storage Containers like normal ones and take at least the taxes out to go buy some stuff... or let the settlements farm balistic fiber and stuff trough industry Plots for my crafting.
 
G0lgrim said:
So i need the Caravan plot in two settlements so that B can use the Industry goods produced in A's Industry plots to Upgrade their Plots too?
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Correct. The "Virtual storage" is only linked by Caravan Plots, not by the vanilla provisioners.
 
G0lgrim said:
Telling something about ingame Tutorials...
But thank you for Helping. :)
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Yeah there's a reason I still keep bringing that concept up, as shown earlier in this very thread.
Apparently things are meant to feel like trying to play cards blindfolded when the person you're playing against won't even tell you whether you're playing Blackjack or Hearts. Even when the feel of the cards' size/texture under your fingers makes you certain you've been dealt cards from a Uno deck for children.
 
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Its the same with those multi-plot-structures... i think some in defense and some even in Homing... Do i have to build three Plots snaped together and asign them all to this multi-plot-thing and they will Form the big combined one?
 
yaugieLC said:
like trying to play cards blindfolded when the person you're playing against won't even tell you whether you're playing Blackjack or Hearts. Even when the feel of the cards' size/texture under your fingers makes you certain you've been dealt cards from a Uno deck for children. :rofl
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I'm stealing that! ;)
G0lgrim said:
multi-plot-structures.
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I assume you mean Multi-Assign plots? There is no snapping required. Just assign more than one settler to it. The HUD should show X/Y assigned where X is the number currently assigned and Y is the max you can assign.
 
msalaba said:
I assume you mean Multi-Assign plots?
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No... there are some defense structures which reach over 3 2x2 plots... like the gate, or home-plots like the truck over 2 2x2 plots... one is the truck self and one is the cargo container behind...
 
G0lgrim said:
No... there are some defense structures which reach over 3 2x2 plots... like the gate, or home-plots like the truck over 2 2x2 plots... one is the truck self and one is the cargo container behind...
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Ohhhhh I know what you're talking about. Like the War Rig from Junktown. Honestly, I'm not sure how to assemble those combo plots. His videos aren't available on youtube anymore. I've yet to use them for that reason.
 
leelazarous said:
Ohhhhh I know what you're talking about. Like the War Rig from Junktown. Honestly, I'm not sure how to assemble those combo plots. His videos aren't available on youtube anymore. I've yet to use them for that reason.
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Yes you would basically snap those two plots together for them to work. The front end, then the back end. Easiest to do using two 2x2 foundation plots.
 
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