Question How to defend vassals.

[m&m]

I can build SS/ Conqueror defense structures in vassals but can't assign anyone to them that aren't potential guards, ie settlers. The problem is that I am unable to move recruits to vassals in order for them to take guard duties.

 

[bullyrook]

The problem is that I am unable to move recruits to vassals in order for them to take guard duties.

Are you trying to move them as usual in workshop mode?

Try using the change role feature on the individual recruit you'd like to move. Change role to Guard will (should) then you give a list of vassals/outposts to send them to for said guard duty.

 

[m&m]

Are you trying to move them as usual in workshop mode?

Yes, I did try moving in the normal method but I also tried it with a recruit that was already designated as a guard. When I play next, I'll try reaffirming the NPC's guard-role by clicking "R" even if they are already designated as such.

 

[Raider106]

Yes, I did try moving in the normal method but I also tried it with a recruit that was already designated as a guard. When I play next, I'll try reaffirming the NPC's guard-role by clicking "R" even if they are already designated as such.

Hello is another post about this and i think what we have a way.Okay the vassals seem to didnt work so you have to put the raider recruit and put them to a patrol route to the vassal what you want when you see your patroller raider recruit in the vassal now you have to put him to guard the vassal and sleep and then he is gong to be in the vassal.If you do the normal way and assign him to guard when you are in a outpost or the main base arent going to work i think what maybe with the next patch is fixed.

 

[m&m]

when you see your patroller raider recruit in the vassal now you have to put him to guard the vassal and sleep and then he is gong to be in the vassal

Waiting around until a parol group arrives could take quite a while, is there a way to summon them?

 

[bullyrook]

I've been changing the roles of my lunatics quite a bit. And have used this feature a number times to send guards back in forth from Vassal Abernathy and Outpost RR. In my experience choosing guard as a role always then asks where you want that recruit to guard.

Now as far as how long it takes the bum to actually show up physically at another outpost...

Waiting around until a parol group arrives could take quite a while, is there a way to summon them?

Unfortunately, the town gavel won't summon the guards assigned to a vassal.

But for control purposes just assigning the guard to the vassal should do the trick. Actually working any martial plots doesn't seem to actually have any effect on control score. Of course, it is important for the vassal's defense score. But not for control itself.

You need guards as meat shields. If attacked, you will fail if all guards get dead. No guards = automatic fail. More guards means more chances not to fail. But too many guards effects vassal production negatively.

You want just enough guards to succeed in a defend quest. I think you'll find, however, that patrols to the vassal actually provide more control than any one guard does

 

[Raider106]

Waiting around until a parol group arrives could take quite a while, is there a way to summon them?

the thing what you can do one is sleep and maybe the patrol is there or when you assing him to a patrol take his id and quote moveto player and with this he is going to be at your location and then you can assing it

 

[m&m]

the thing what you can do one is sleep and maybe the patrol is there or when you assing him to a patrol take his id and quote moveto player and with this he is going to be at your location and then you can assing it

Thanks for the assist. This is a lot of tedious complexity to endure for something that is supposed to be automated. I hope it's fixed soon.

 

[Raider106]

Thanks for the assist. This is a lot of tedious complexity to endure for something up that is supposed to be automated. I hope it's fixed soon.

I am happy to help,i think what maybe with the next patch is fixed

 

[bullyrook]

Thanks for the assist. This is a lot of tedious complexity to endure for something up that is supposed to be automated. I hope it's fixed soon.

In real life I'm a complete slob. But I like to game as an obsessive micro manager with a knife. "Tedious" complexity is my groove. I'm digging the Fallout meets Civilization vibe.

Don't forget it's still early in Phase 2 and we are all in uncharted territory.

 

[m&m]

Actually working any martial plots doesn't seem to actually have any effect on control score. Of course, it is important for the vassal's defense score.

If working martial plots has no effect on control score, what does?

If I build a standard Sim Settlements desk and donate defensive supplies into it, will that increase a vassal's defense score?

 

[Raider106]

If working martial plots have any effect on control score, what does?

If I build a standard Sim Settlements desk and donate defensive supplies into it, will that increase a vassal's defense score?

i dont think so is better you do martial plots and assign the raiders to it and the power must increase

 

[m&m]

better you do martial plots and assign the raiders to it and the power must increase

Actually working any martial plots doesn't seem to actually have any effect on control score.

But didn't you say guards don't actually increase control?

 

[Raider106]

But didn't you say guards don't actually increase control?

For me it increases control but look i do this one time and works is:put the vanilla guard post and then assign the raiders to the vanilla guard post and then a lot of control was increased.

 

[m&m]

put the vanilla guard post and then assign the raiders to the vanilla guard post and then a lot of control was increased.

Tiny vanilla defense-post score = large control score, got it, lol. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Raider106]

Tiny vanilla defense-post score = large control score, got it, lol. Thanks for the suggestion.

I am happy to help good lock with your raiding

 

[bullyrook]

But didn't you say guards don't actually increase control?

My claim was just having the guard assigned to the vassal at all adds to Control, but whether or not that guard is or isn't working a martial plot/guard post hasn't seemed to matter in regards to Control in my play so far.

edit: In short, unemployed/unassigned "Guards" in a vassal give the same amount of control as employed/assigned ones.

I have to reassign my guards to their posts every time I return to the vassal. So when they unassign from the plots, defense rating goes down until they are reassigned to those plots. But I haven't noticed that the Control meter is effected the same way.

It's very possible I haven't been giving the Conqueror HUD time to update. Since changes in outposts/vassals aren't instantaneously reflected in the HUD my observations may be skewed.

 

[bullyrook]

Two bits from the patch notes:

• Guard
• -Choosing this option will ask you to choose which settlement to station them at.
• -They will help defend during raids.
• -They greatly improve the control score of the settlement they are stationed at but produce no Wages/Equipment/Rations when working the corresponding plot types.
• -They require Equipment, Rations, and Wages.

Is the bold meant to be read as

1. Guards greatly improve the control score of the settlement they are stationed when working the corresponding plot types, i.e Martial plots and guard posts. But they produce no Wages/equipment/rations when working those plots/posts.

or

2. They greatly improve the control score of the settlement compared to not being there at all. And they don't produce W/R/E when working the corresponding plots.

Does the "working corresponding plots" bit go with both parts or just the part after the but.

• Patrol
• -Choosing this option will ask you to choose a destination settlement to patrol to.
• -They will patrol between two Outposts, or between an Outpost and a Vassal.
• -They improve the control score of both of the settlements they are patrolling between.
• -Additionally, any Vassals within a certain range (to see the range, highlight over an Outpost on the pipboy map and the Vassals in range will have their icons change) will gain an additional control boost for each Warrior stationed in outposts linked to it with a patrol.
• -They will help defend during raids if they happen to be close to the settlement under attack.
• -They require Equipment, Rations, and Wages.

Patrols increase control in two settlements. Advantage!

More warriors in the linked outpost means more control. Advantage squared!

In order to maintain control at my Vassal Abernathy (4 Level 3 Commercial/5 Level 3 Ag Plots/ 4 level 2 or 3 Industrials ) I have two guards stationed at the vassal, who mostly work their two martial plots, and 4 patrols coming out of RR.

They last time I had to add something to fill the control bar, I first tried a new, third guard. I assigned this one to a guard post. It wasn't enough, however, to fill the control bar back up. So I made this same guard a patrol coming to Abernathy from RR. Then the control bar was back to full.

11 or 12 warriors at HQ seemed to be making each patrol worth a lot more bang for the control buck.

But even so I wouldn't just send patrols for control because Vassals need some guards for the defend mechanics and to work martial plots for defense rating.

But too many guards tanks Vassal morale. The sweet spot is 1/3 Guards to total Population somewhere else in the patch notes. High vassal morale is a huge bump in W/R/E production. It could very well be possible that a high morale Vassal might produce more or the same with fewer plots and fewer guards compared to a low morale Vassal with more plots and more guards.

Too many patrols coming out of an outpost lowers the number of warriors in that outpost. It's a limited pool so more patrols means less warriors--which in turn makes the patrols somewhat less effective at control.

The fun/frustration is figuring out the right balance.

​

 

[Raider106]

Two bits from the patch notes:

• Guard
• -Choosing this option will ask you to choose which settlement to station them at.
• -They will help defend during raids.
• -They greatly improve the control score of the settlement they are stationed at but produce no Wages/Equipment/Rations when working the corresponding plot types.
• -They require Equipment, Rations, and Wages.

Is the bold meant to be read as

1. Guards greatly improve the control score of the settlement they are stationed when working the corresponding plot types, i.e Martial plots and guard posts. But they produce no Wages/equipment/rations when working those plots/posts.

or

2. They greatly improve the control score of the settlement compared to not being there at all. And they don't produce W/R/E when working the corresponding plots.

Does the "working corresponding plots" bit go with both parts or just the part after the but.

• Patrol
• -Choosing this option will ask you to choose a destination settlement to patrol to.
• -They will patrol between two Outposts, or between an Outpost and a Vassal.
• -They improve the control score of both of the settlements they are patrolling between.
• -Additionally, any Vassals within a certain range (to see the range, highlight over an Outpost on the pipboy map and the Vassals in range will have their icons change) will gain an additional control boost for each Warrior stationed in outposts linked to it with a patrol.
• -They will help defend during raids if they happen to be close to the settlement under attack.
• -They require Equipment, Rations, and Wages.

Patrols increase control in two settlements. Advantage!

More warriors in the linked outpost means more control. Advantage squared!

In order to maintain control at my Vassal Abernathy (4 Level 3 Commercial/5 Level 3 Ag Plots/ 4 level 2 or 3 Industrials ) I have two guards stationed at the vassal, who mostly work their two martial plots, and 4 patrols coming out of RR.

They last time I had to add something to fill the control bar, I first tried a new, third guard. I assigned this one to a guard post. It wasn't enough, however, to fill the control bar back up. So I made this same guard a patrol coming to Abernathy from RR. Then the control bar was back to full.

11 or 12 warriors at HQ seemed to be making each patrol worth a lot more bang for the control buck.

But even so I wouldn't just send patrols for control because Vassals need some guards for the defend mechanics and to work martial plots for defense rating.

But too many guards tanks Vassal morale. The sweet spot is 1/3 Guards to total Population somewhere else in the patch notes. High vassal morale is a huge bump in W/R/E production. It could very well be possible that a high morale Vassal might produce more or the same with fewer plots and fewer guards compared to a low morale Vassal with more plots and more guards.

Too many patrols coming out of an outpost lowers the number of warriors in that outpost. It's a limited pool so more patrols means less warriors--which in turn makes the patrols somewhat less effective at control.

The fun/frustration is figuring out the right balance.

​

Thanks Bullyrook this is very useful

 

[kinggath]

The guards being assigned to martials/guard posts only actually matters for defense score. The control benefit is provided as soon as the Guard role is assigned to that NPC.

So even if assignment is screwy - you're still gaining the benefit.

The fun/frustration is figuring out the right balance.

Then I did my job! Definitely didn't want it to be easy - but it's definitely going to take a few rounds of patch feedback to get it perfect. If folks are finding it frustrating and not fun, you should turn off all of the new settings for now and try it again on your next character.

It's likely going to take a few rounds of patches to get all of the tools in place to make it as straightforward to manage as I envision. Most of this should be automated and should just require a few reassignments of patrols and guards, and converting plot types.

All of the other juggling should only need to be done for folks who want to expand really quickly by playing the min-max game - which I think are the folks who will find it most fun to explore these mechanics and figure out optimal assignment builds.

For the majority of players, I anticipate they will just have to hunker down a bit with a minimal number of outposts and vassals until they see some plots leveling up which will ramp up their production and allow them to expand at a "natural pace".

One of the things we're battling here, is there's no definition of what a natural pace should look like, as prior to this patch - you could just expand as fast as you wanted with only your warrior bodies slowing you down - and those were cheap cannon fodder.

After the bugs are worked out, pacing is the most important part. We have to figure out what feels like a good pace to be conquering more outposts and vassals and get the numbers adjusted to support that. I'm sure that pacing will be different for everyone - hardcore, survival players will probably want it to be difficult and therefore slow, and super casual players will just want to be able to power out conquest as fast as they like. I think most of is will want to be in the middle somewhere - so I need all of your help to find the middle.

I'm highly motivated to get that right, so keep the feedback coming!