Anyone else feel a bit betrayed that you can't use scrap generated by the industrial plots? or any of the caps generated by the town?

[Strec]

The more I think on this subject and the more I ask myself on the interest of SS2 as it is if you can only invest to create and up more settlements without getting help from the others you did already manage.

Note : it concerns only the basic resources (wood, steel, concrete, ...) needed to create new basic settlements. For example if all the items in the "foundations" category where free, like when you create a plot with foundation, the problem would be grandly reduced.

I recognize that it's due to my pleasure to have a well terraformed settlement before starting to construct plot

 

[Bored Peon]

The more I think on this subject and the more I ask myself on the interest of SS2 as it is if you can only invest to create and up more settlements without getting help from the others you did already manage.

That is wrong. Supply lines share virtual goods allow you to build and upgrade plots.

 

[msalaba]

The "promise" might indeed need a bit of tweaking, because the amount of gophering around for resources certainly hasn't decreased.

I have never played Fallout 4 where I was actively killing and looting for... wood. I thought it was a nice change of pace. I thought SS1 was way to generous with the resources.

Plots that tell you that you lack the resources to upgrade but won't tell you what you need to upgrade is one example of lack of transparency that I do not understand.

I am under the assumption that it is supposed to tell you, but something is broken.

Yeah for those that do not know the vanilla scavenging system is something like 50 scrap storage +5 for every settler until it stops producing.
So if you got like a couple hundred wood, steel, etc in your workshop those vanilla scavenging station settlers are literally doing nothing.
SS bypasses that production limit by just throwing it into the workshop.

IKEK's Uncapped Settlement Surplus was a must have to combat this. Especially if you're a manufacturing junkie like me and end up with all your resources in one workshop.

Quick Question about the resoruce generation: Is all the scrap SS2 plots produce now virtual only? Or are there any ways to get a settlement plot to produce regular junk for the player to take and use?

In base SS2, there is only one ind plot I know of that creates scrap and puts it into the workshop. In the early game it can seem these plots do not create scrap as the operating and building costs eat this up pretty quick.

maybe a 2x2 or 3x3 ammo production plot that can crank out some 5.56 rounds or any modded ammo type you can set.

You could throw your hat into the ring when the Builder's Toolkit comes out!

And I dislike playing without XDI intensely..I guess he is wearing Pouches of Carrying.

Playing without XDI = have you tried my patch? I assume it works as I have not received any complaints in the last week. LOL 'Pouches of
Carrying' is that found in the same chest as the Greater Ring of Kickass?

A simple on/off % split between workbench/virtual would work for everyone. the current option is turning some play styles away from SS2.

This is an excellent example of something to put in the Suggestions Thread!

The new things that the story unlocked were complementary to a settlement, not requirements for a settlement to function.

Yes! Quite valid points all around. On my first playthrough, I kept expecting Jake to hold my hand and school me on the virtues of ASAMs but instead I got Old Paul... And Lily... And a boot to the ASAM... Like you said, this would have been a GREAT spot to bring in the martial plot. I came in thinking SS1 and went SS What??? I was like a lot puppy looking for its mother. Fumbling around in the dark like a blind man. My settlers are as defenseless as slimes and Jake wants to go shoot up some Raiders for some new shiny gizmo... Rebuild my left one.
TL;DR I guess coming in I expected SS1 with a quest to explain the SS2 additions.

And until the devs finish making sure their questline works and start fixing core level mechanics bugs instead, I cant see that changing.

I am SOOOOOO looking forward to that. In truth they should be there,but it seems they are chasing some crazy mod conflicts.

I would think a plot that takes a set percentage each day from virtual and adds it too the workbench, should be simple enough.

Again, where o where art thou Builder's Toolkit. I guess if one knew what they were doing, this could be done with the CK.

All in all, I do not feel betrayed. I thought the new found scarcity blew a breath of fresh air into this old game that I'm sure everyone here knows every bit of dialog from the base game by heart.

My only real complaint is that, like previously stated, the martial plot was brought in too late. Like @Irealys said, the perfect time for this would have been after the kidnapping. My other complaint is that there was no information on the system changes. The missing SS1 tools didn't help here either. Maybe it's not too late to add some characters to do some 'splain'in? Heck, I've had 5 playthroughs and still don't really have much of a clue. I've only ever unlocked the adv. ag plot. There must be huge requirements to unlock adv. ind. (Ind. Rev. I miss you!) I can't wait until I unlock these things.
(maybe I should play instead of spending my time in the Creation Kit...) /rant

 

[Lostlegends]

This is an excellent example of something to put in the Suggestions Thread!

There is a suggestion thread!!!
I dont normaly do forums/mods etc, so I just tend to focus on what I specificaly want instead of browsing around.
I will 'Move In' to the suggestion thread tomorrow !!!
Thanks.

 

[Lemnear]

I really miss having an early sawmill at Tenpines Bluff allowing me to just build up foundations and walls for the settlements myself.

Virtual storage is a good idea, the execution however is terrible and only useful if I only ever use city plans.
I prefer to build settlements myself, only using the plots, so I am forced to scavenge for wood and steel while my settlement network is sitting on full stockpiles of building material.

A balance would be to make virtual stockpiles accessible while in build mode.
That way settlement building would feel more like a self sustained thing than a grind while crafting gear, automatrons and resource extractors would still require scavanging.

 

[Bored Peon]

I just pulled 2000 caps out of my 25 man Starlight Drive In workshop.

The ONLY thing about the new system I dislike is constantly having to buy concrete for the terraforming.
However..
I view that as a giant plus because I no longer am tied behind the production output of a gravel plot.

Are some of you so spoiled by SS1 that you do not know who has shipments for sale?
Do you even remember the days before shipments even existed?

You can get the price of a wood shipment down to 600 caps. Then buy from
Drumlin Diner: Trudy, Carla
Diamond City: Myrna, Percy
Goodneighbor Daisy, Rufus
Bunker Hill: Deb (without new rules), Science Gift Shop.

That is 2000 wood, for 4800 caps.

 

[msalaba]

What is needed is a new way of thinking. Kinggath gave us a framework, like a skeleton. Its up to us to build the flesh and bone of the system to make it do what we want. The Builder's Toolkit is out. There is nothing stopping us from making a plot that allows access to the virtual storage, like a bank. The best part is that anyone could do it and most likely become a hero to many in the process!

@Bored Peon - I remember the days before shipments! I was constantly cleaning the map and waiting for cells to respawn. Good times! Even better, I remember the days before SS. Those were dark time indeed!

 

[Strec]

The Builder's Toolkit is out. There is nothing stopping us from making a plot that allows access to the virtual storage, like a bank. The best part is that anyone could do it and most likely become a hero to many in the process!

Looked at the building kit and the wiki, with the idea of modifying an existing basic plot (Lumbermill) to generate a supplemental non-virtual resource (wood) added daily in the workbench...

Total fail

I did not find how to generate any resource with a building plan. But I must recognise I'm a pure analyst/coder and the plots thing is really not my cup of tea (else I would have done some in SS1 for my other mods)

If someone better than me can try and succes, you are welcome....

 

[Lemnear]

Are some of you so spoiled by SS1 that you do not know who has shipments for sale?
Do you even remember the days before shipments even existed?

I only vaguely recall the times before Industrial Revolution. Since IR came out the only thing I ever needed to buy where components for bot crafting from Isabel.

The real incentive to bother with settlements is a steady supply of materials.
Caps are pointless, if I play without settlement building I generally have more caps from selling loot than from settlement income.

 

[Tinuvia]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but if you haven't seen it already, this part of the new Addon Maker's Toolkit discusses the Industrial philosophy behind the setup of SS2. It also shows how to make the gathering/conversion/production parts of the industrial plots (or any type of plot) using the in-built SS2 system or where you can hook your own scripts to do other things (of course keeping balance in mind).

 

[msalaba]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but if you haven't seen it already, this part of the new Addon Maker's Toolkit discusses the Industrial philosophy behind the setup of SS2. It also shows how to make the gathering/conversion/production parts of the industrial plots (or any type of plot) using the in-built SS2 system or where you can hook your own scripts to do other things (of course keeping balance in mind).

I really want to look into this, but I'm torn. I think if I move to something else, my current mod will never see the Nexus...

 

[Deleted member 10215]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but if you haven't seen it already, this part of the new Addon Maker's Toolkit discusses the Industrial philosophy behind the setup of SS2. It also shows how to make the gathering/conversion/production parts of the industrial plots (or any type of plot) using the in-built SS2 system or where you can hook your own scripts to do other things (of course keeping balance in mind).

I hadnt gotten to here yet in reading that, but my own experimentation with the mechanics had somehow not yet shown me that Commercials are selling the produce of your other plots, I thought it was all going into the Virtual Storage never to be seen by me again. This... changes my opinion on where the balance direction is. (and tbh some of that feels like it was written aimed directly at me)

 

[Strec]

Is someone can say me how the new philosophy can give me the wood and concrete needed to create a new settlement I would really enjoy this
And I don't speak of the copper needed to manage power on a settlement you just created

I fear it's like in IRL, I would exchange 5 philosophers for 1 basic worker to have a chance to get some real results...

 

[Lemnear]

Is someone can say me how the new philosophy can give me the wood and concrete needed to create a new settlement I would really enjoy this
And I don't speak of the copper needed to manage power on a settlement you just created

I fear it's like in IRL, I would exchange 5 philosophers for 1 basic worker to have a chance to get some real results...

Talking about power the one thing I always ran out of was ceramics. thanks to that I became an obsessive hoarder of coffee cups.
Muggy would be so happy in my settlements.

 

[katnerd]

For those who don't want to deal with always hunting for scrap the mod Better Locational Damage on Nexus has a part of it that controls loot distribution of pretty much everything that is found in any kind of container. Each container can be dynamically edited to change the rarity and quality. A slightly less immersive compliment would also to have your sorting mod make all scrap weightless, but I understand if most don't want to do that.
Personally I got back in to Fallout 4 with the express purpose of seeing how well designed the quest was as a tutorial to teach a player how to build settlements. I always found the settlement mechanic in the vanilla game tedious and SS1 made is easy to simply assign a leader and a plan and leave. This time I decided to see if SS2 could actually teach me the ins and outs of building settlements.
It's done that fantastically so far.

 

[Deleted member 10215]

Talking about power the one thing I always ran out of was ceramics. thanks to that I became an obsessive hoarder of coffee cups.
Muggy would be so happy in my settlements.

Those plots in mytigio's "Industrial City" for SS1 to gather specific types of scrap sure got a lot of use by me for that very reason.

 

[Lostlegends]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but if you haven't seen it already, this part of the new Addon Maker's Toolkit discusses the Industrial philosophy behind the setup of SS2. It also shows how to make the gathering/conversion/production parts of the industrial plots (or any type of plot) using the in-built SS2 system or where you can hook your own scripts to do other things (of course keeping balance in mind).

Ok, so saw your post after I had just finnished reading that lol.
Although I understand now where/why they are going in this direction. The bit that stands out for me was this

'Why would these peoplewho are scrambling to survive just give everything they created to the player?Instead, with Sim Settlements 2, the Industrial Production class generates items for Commercialplots to sell. The player will then have a much larger pool of goods to choose from, andsimultaneously a resource sink for the extreme amount of caps and other goods they will haveacquired in the late game.'

How about switching that around a bit. Why would I clear an area of bad guys, spend my time making an area fit for people to live, give them the means to survive, invest my money, my reasources, and risk my life for a bunch of asam kicking yokels who dont deserve to survive. Just so I can buy the junk they created with my reasources, Get real. This realy is a preston garvey simulation.
To be honest its far simpler, this is a game. I want reward for risk, and I dont mean a warm fuzzy feeling inside from being mr Nice Guy.
Fallout is getting Way too nice.

 

[Strec]

Fallout is getting Way too nice.

Note that it's the way since Bethesda bought the licence and produced Fallout 3
I remember when Internet was not so used and PC video games had a specific population, the sellers produced some good title reserved to dedicated public and the roleplay was less carebear.
But, as soon as the objective is to make money by selling the game to the larger population the game have to be soft and you have games where you name the slaves "settlers", where you kill and dismember people and thrown on them atomic bombs but where seeing tits or asses is scandalous :p

 

[Bored Peon]

'Why would these peoplewho are scrambling to survive just give everything they created to the player?

LOL. Ya the SS1 you basically became Preston. "Another settlement needs your wood, let me mark it on your map."

I have been withdrawing caps by the 1000s from workbenches. I also aint even really making an effort in Tax collection either. Nor am I making any effort in paste production to scrap and sell.

 

[Irealys]

To be honest its far simpler, this is a game.

No. This is a mod. They are entirely optional, you can pick what mod you want and not all mods are there to give you reward for your actions. Some are visual redesign, some give you badass weapons, some rework the difficulty levels or rebalance perks and whatnot. The industrial philosophy is the balance this mod is aiming for. Mod authors can do what they want for the reasons they want.

And that includes you. This mod allows you to do your own plots and form there you can make them as overpowered as you want, put the things you want in the workshop and do whatever your heart desire. They aren't even pushing their preferred balance on you, you can do what you want. And that's even without looking at all the settings you can change in the holotape to make the experience as tailor made to your preference as possible.

It's not like anyone is forcing you to play SS2 either. If you prefer the way SS1 plays, it's still there and even on Xbox I'm still seeing addons being uploaded or updated with new content. The options are all there for you if you don't like what this mod is not working the way you want but with the amount of work they put in, how about you respect their right to do the mod they want to do with the goals they want?