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Question Help with CTD's

Kivip

New Member
Messages
5
I have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to troubleshoot these issues but am at the end of my rope. I'm using just the base 3 in one and some additional building plan packs, not running any city plans or such, no conquering... about as simple as sim settlements can get. I'm running into what might be two different CTD's I cannot for the life of me solve. Already found a bunch of scripting issues with fallrim that I fixed or got rid of, but that turned out to be unrelated to the crashing.

First one acts like the scrap crash... but isn't. It acts exactly like it; crashing one second after fast travelling/loading a save, scrapping or moving power objects etc. Only the power grid tools find no issues nor corruption in the affected settlements, and through hours of testing I have been able to determine that this happens only when a power-producing plot is connected to the settlement power grid. none of the 3 conditions the scrap crash happens under apply either, to my knowledge, as the only thing that does anything even remotely related is sim settlements and I only plop down plots and sometimes designate what should be built on them.
The other CTD seems distinctly different enough that it might be another issue entirely, and I have much less information about why and how it happens. It's simple. 10-30 seconds after arriving into an affected settlement, whether it's via fast travel, loading a game there or arriving by foot, the game crashes. If there's anough time, I can sprint far enough form the settlement to avoid the crash. Most bafflingly this started affecting outpost zimonja right after setting it up. There's nothing but a generator, beacon, an Ideks logistics station and the powr line connecting them there. Before that I tohught maybe somethign was being upgraded to a corrupted texture, but ideks is definitely not the culprit here (not all settlements are affected, and disabling ideks doesn't fix the issue. That leaves zimonja with an empty plot and still produces the same crash.

I've attached paurys logs from rght before a crash. A bunch of warnings and errors for sim settlements, altohuhg I lack the know-how to know if what they are or if they're vene indicative of a problem.

Here's my current load order (have been tweaking it around a lot while trying to find a solution, it propably looks like a real frankenstain now.)

Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
HUDFramework.esm
WorkshopFramework.esm
SettlementKeywords.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
SimSettlements.esm
Loads.esm
Loot Detector.esl
Damage Threshold.esm
SimSettlements_IDEKsLogisticsStation.esl
Robot Home Defence.esm
SpringCleaning.esm
Vivid Waters.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-MiscWeightless.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Perks.esp
SOTS.esp
More detailed perk description dlc version.esp
WelcometoGoodneighbor.esp
BTInteriors_Project.esp
3DNPC_FO4.esp
More Cooking 1_1.esp
Custom Legendary Modifications Remade.esp
Craftable Adhesives.esp
Basic Ammo Crafting.esp
True Legendary Enemies.esp
Atomic World.esp
More Where That Came From Diamond City.esp
Faster Terminal Displays (20x).esp
BetterNightVision.esp
Loads of Ammo - Leveled Lists.esp
SlowTime.esp
DisableVanillaFastTravel.esp
VegetableOil.esp
Arbitration - Survival Damage to Player 5x.esp
Companion Infinite Ammo.esp
LegendaryExplosiveNerf.esp
VisibleCompanionAffinity.esp
Arbitration - Recommended Core.esp
BetterModDescriptions.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ZY-DLCAutomatron.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ZY-DLCNukaWorld.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ZY-DLCFarHarbor.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-AidReducedWeight.esp
CleanSoup.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Ammo.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Junk+DEF_INV.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ZY-DLCContraptions.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ZY-DLCVaultTec.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ArmorBySlot.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-CosmeticsByType.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Mods.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ExplosivesSortTop.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-NotJunkJustMoney.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
LooksMenu.esp
LooksMenu Customization Compendium.esp
CBBE.esp
The Eyes Of Beauty.esp
VisibleWeapons.esp
RemoteExplosives.esp
QuadBarrelShotgun.esp
CROSS_CryoLance.esp
Quad_Fusillade.esp
TheKite_Railroad_Handmaiden.esp
Quad_RAWLauncher.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches.esp
AnS Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Ballistic Weave.esp
Perk Magazine Material Fix.esp
Thunderstruck-PA.esp
GaussRifleMk2.esp
tumbajamba Advanced Engineering.esp
GaussRifleMk2 - tAE - AWKCR.esp
BetterModDescriptionsRGABO.esp
TacticalMods.esp
CutWeaponModsRestored-GOTY.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Weapons.esp
rpampas.esp
Quad_Accelerator.esp
10mmSMG.esp
BetterModDescriptionsCWMR.esp
BetterModDescriptionsLMNormal.esp
BetterModDescriptionsWE.esp
BetterModDescriptionsWEDAO.esp
Arbitration - Survival Damage by Player 2.5x.esp
BetterJunkFences.esp
DD_All_the_COncrete.esp
MJC_SS_Plots.esp
LongerPowerLines3x.esp
SolarPower.esp
ArtilleryInstantdblexp.esp
commonwealth underground and forgotten spaces - Valdacil Compatible2.0.esp
NoPerkNuka.esp
GlowingSeaEXPANDED.esp
moreXplore.esp
UnlockedTrailersProject[UTP]v2.0.esp
CROSS_PlasRail.esp
Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp
SalemEXPANDED.esp
Boston_Police_Department.esp
CombatZoneRestored.esp
TrainBar.esp
ConcordEXPANDED.esp
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp
ImmersiveFastTravel.esp
IFT_Automatron.esp
DeadAirplane.esp
HagenEXPANDED.esp
SwampsEXPANDED.esp
Fusion Gun.esp
Thunderstruck-Gauss_Full.esp
Crossbow.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp
Vivid Fallout - All in One - Best Choice.esp
NEST_BUNKER_PROJECT.esp
Abandoned_Fort.esp
plenty 'o' exploration.esp
shanksinteriors.esp
atlanticofficesf23.esp
Sanctuary rebuild.1.2.esp
ArmyDepotOmega.esp
The Lost Vault.esp
SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearTwo.esp
FullOfFill.esp
PlaneWreck.esp
USNBOSTONWRECK-WithMarker.esp
UniqueUniques.esp
Weapon Mods Mod.esp
Extended weapon mods.esp
EnclaveFactionItems.esp
TESLA Project.esp
officersRevolver.esp
AtomCatGarage.esp
F4 Death Tunnel.esp
Vault115.esp
TheSewers.esp
Minuteman Watchtowers.esp
Glock86.esp
Floaters.esp
Rsiyo'sLocationPack.esp
DOOMMerged.esp
SkibsWeapons-REDUX.esp
InsideJobs.esp
UFOCrashSite.esp
CorvalhoWidowShotgun.esp
stumbleuponinteriors.esp
ohSIM_Sim_Settlements_Scrappers_Addon.esp
WattzLaserGun.esp
DWUK_LexingtonInteriors.esp
WVSimSAddon.esp
ECV_Remnants.esp
SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearOne.esp
SimSettlements_MegaPack_YearThree.esp
BullpupBozar.esp
DP_CaravanShotgun.esp
HuntingShotgun.esp
AQUILA.esp
CROSS_BreakActionLaser.esp
Archimedes-II.esp
ArtilleryFlare.esp
SSEX.esp
OWR.esp
Passthrough.esp
ConcordMusuemRestoration.esp
Vivid Weathers - FO4.esp
DarkerNights.esp
DarkerNightsDetection.esp
Vivid Weathers - FO4 - Far Harbor.esp
Vivid Weathers - Nuka World.esp
SuperMutantRedux.esp
SuperMutantRedux_WeaponsmithExtended_Patch.esp
MODaquatic.esp
W.A.T.Minutemen.esp
NightstrikerCreatureMod.esp
TraumaOverrideHarness.esp
BetterOpenSeason.esp
DeathclawVariety.esp
FO4 NPCs Travel.esp
D.E.C.A.Y.esp
CROSS_CourserStrigidae.esp
GunnerFaceVariety.esp
RaiderFaceVariety_2.0.esp
deatchclawegg3.esp
ImmersiveVendors.esp
CompRedo.esp
DV-No Levelled Vertibirds.esp
DV-Very Durable Vertibirds.esp
Nightstriker-TrueLegendaryEnemies patch.esp
Automatron For All (Rare Spawn).esp
SuperMutantRedux VIS Patch.esp
SuperMutantRedux_ArmorSmithExtended.esp
ImmersiveScrapping.esp
SC_ExpandedScrapList.esp
subwayrunnnerdynamiclighting.esp
Fr4nssonsLightTweaks.esp
Glowing Animals Emit Light.esp
PipBoyShadows.esp
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp
StartMeUp.esp
Scrap-able Mods - AllinOne+DLC - VIS.esp
SettlementMenuManager.esp
MTM-Power Radius Increased and No Build Limit.esp
DD_Khassar_De_Templari_Increased_build.esp
WIPAG_Power Armor Overhaul.esp
WIPAG_Damage_Threshold.esp
WIPAG_Contraptions_DLC_Addon.esp
WIPAG_FarHarbor_DLC_Addon.esp
WIPAG_NukaWorld_DLC_Addon.esp
Remote Explosives AWKCR Patch.esp
OWR_CraftableDecor.esp
OWR_CraftableDecor_CW.esp
OWR_CraftableDecor_SKPatch.esp
RemoteExplosivesVIS.esp
AWKCR - dnCommonArmor dlc legendaries bugfix.esp
BetterModDescriptionsCOTC.esp
BetterModDescriptionsEWM.esp
BetterModDescriptionsTXM73GR.esp
Explosives_AWKCR.esp
Scrap-able Mods - CWMR+DLC - VIS.esp
SOTS_AWKCR_AS_Patch.esp
BetterModDescriptionsAE.esp

Any help and suggestions are appreciated. I've put close to two full work days into testing this thing by now.
 

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At a glance you've got some script heavy mods installed so you probably need to idle somewhere isolated for a few hours to let things clear up.
Vivid weathers can be pretty resource heavy, but most importantly it changes your LOD so at Zimonja if you stand at the closet perimeter to Tenpines you will actually have that fully loaded into memory as well as whatever you have in Zimonja.

Most importantly you have spring cleaning installed, we don't encourage the use of any scrap mods round here, but we actively discourage the use of that one. It hasn't been updated in years.
 
I got rid of spring cleaning and went to do that indoors cell waiting thing. After exiting said indoor cell the active script count jumped to almost 70, but then cleared up, leaving behind ~60 unattached instances. Cleared those with fallrim, and the travelled about a bit to make sure nothign like that was constantly happening.

Then I tried to go to Tenpines, the problem child. It still crashes the same way, whether I fast travel there or approach by foot. I made saves while approaching and after arriving to keep keep an eye on the script loads, and disabled the non-settlement ones that were being very active at that moment (mainly loot radar). The stellement still crashes, even with no unattached instances and just 10 active scripts.

Trying to get a save from as close to a crash as possible I found 2 things, however; just seconds before a crash there always appears a suspended stack from sim settlements parent script. It's not there in saves taken 10 seconds before the crash, but is present when I manage to save within a few seconds. And the saves created just before a crash where this supended stack is present consistenly produce a scrap crash-style crash when they're being loaded. (game loads, you have a half a second to hear your radio before CTD). No suspended stacks are generated in other settlements which haven't been crashing, and they've been fine with multiple times the active script load. Any idea what this could be about?
 
Hummm?

Fallrim is really more of a diagnostic tool when it comes to fallout 4.

Given the size of your long load order and "you can not" Just can't uninstall mods mid-game without rolling back. Rolling back is what I recommend?

The below link might be helpful?

https://www.simsettlements.com/site/index.php?threads/bags_2-0-bake-a-game-save.11773/#post-81186

The other thing is before you start a new game run Fo4Edit on it and look for conflicts.

Just humble suggestions.

And this might help? https://www.simsettlements.com/site...-recovering-a-problem-settlement-part-1.7125/

Scrap mods and Start-up mods I am not a fan of. For some users, they can be fine? For others not so much.
 
Well removing the unattached instances is the one time I actually did something with fallrim, versus dozens of times of taking and cheking different saves for how scripts were behaving, so I'd say diagnostics is exactly what I was using it for.

As for the script cleaning link, there unfortunately isn't anything to clean. The load is light (10-16 active) and only comes from sim settlements (parent, addon,autobuilder), main fallout (worskhop parent, realias) and SKE. There's no bloat and no suspicious and/or unusual scripts, beyond that suspended stack of sim settlements parent script. It really shouldn't be suspended at all with this light a load. The more developed settlements with additional vanilla game scripts like Sanctuary routinely handle dozens of active scripts when loading with no issues and zero suspended stacks.

I'm definitely thinking of following that second link and nuking the whole settlement and seeing if the issue goes with it. I'm still trying to figure this issue out mostly out of fear that it'll re-emerge later somewhere else that'll hit me much harder to nuke. Playing settlement sim city is kinda my main focus and i might genuinely cry if this happened somewhere I've put a dozen work hours into.
 
I've only been disabling stuff after this issue appeared to try and find a fix for it, hoping it was caused by script bloat or a conflict. Most of it has been enabled since. I can go back to the saves before this round of testing, with SC still enabled, at any time. I haven't been actually playing and progressing the game since I started testing, and the disables are purely an effort to identify the issue. This isn't my first rodeo.

The only thing I've kept disabled for the time being has been pack attack, as its massive script bloat (hundreds of actives!) was the first suspect I had at the very beginning of these issues, and regardless that amount of activity is guaranteed to break things later, badly. Alas, whatever problems may arise from that arent the CTD's that started before.

If you lot are out of ideas I'll go with the remote nuclear option and tell you how it goes.
 
I seem to have a similar problem with SS. Just started a brand new game and just got back to Red Rocket after Concord intro quest and boom, CTD's again on trying to load save! Not running any 'Scrap' mod this time and the only real difference to my 'current', reasonably stable game (level 61, 9d13h) is SS. I use MO2 and have a different profile for each game.
Interestingly if I load a save that I know works (say from my stable game or an early save (pre museum) and then from 'In game', load the 'dodgy' save game, it works! As an ex programmer - I have no idea and do not understand why this works. What is the difference between loading a save straight after loading F4 or loading a save when the game is already running?? Does something remain in memory and get re-used??
As I said the only real difference is running Sim Settlements and I seem to have no option at this stage but not to use it.
Any help appreciated and plugin list & load order below:-
Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
WorkshopFramework.esm
HUDFramework.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
XDI.esm
SimSettlements.esm
TrueStormsFO4.esm
Homemaker.esm
Snap'n Build.esm
Homemaker - Bunker Disabler.esp
TrueStormsFO4-EarlierSunsets.esp
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarbor.esp
TrueStormsFO4-EarlierSunsetsFH.esp
TrueStormsFO4-GlowingSeaExtraRads.esp
Build High - Expanded Settlements.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
BasementLiving.esp
WorkshopRearranged.esp
OCDecorator - No Experience.esp
OCDecorator.esp
OCDecoratorDLC.esp
OCDispenser.esp
SkjAlert_All_DLC.esp
Locksmith.esp
RealComics.esp
CBBE.esp
Marmo1233 - Immersive Settlers.esp
3DNPC_FO4Settler.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp
BetterSettlersLightArmorOnly.esp
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
Stackable Brick Wall Foundations.esp
SnappableGuardPosts.esp
CraftableAmmo.esp
CraftableAmmo_plus.esp
AutoDoors.esp
dcc-dialog-helm.esp
LooksMenu.esp
Lacy Underwear.esp
Workshop_Planters.esp
Crimsomrider's 1950s Feminine Outfits.esp
stumbleuponinteriors.esp
BTInteriors_Project.esp
AtomicRadio.esp
Move (Get Out the Way).esp
This is MY Bed (Extended).esp
Realistic_conversations.esp
MTM-VT-NoObjectLimit.esp
HoloTime.esp
CROSS_Jetpack.esp
SettlementMenuManager.esp

PS: Fallrim tools shows the save as completely 'clean'.
Ok, update: It isn't SS, or isn't just SS. Just started another game without SS (and minimal set of mods), got back to Red Rocket again after Concord, saved the game and boom CTD on trying to load it from clean. WT hell is going on?? Will try to track down offending mod (if it's a mod). Something must be affecting (corrupting?) new games as my ongoing game still works?? Any help still appreciated, although I realise you have no reason to do so . . .
Update2: Seems to be caused by 'using' the Workshop (in RR) for the first time!? So maybe a/the workshop mod??
Update3: I think I have found the problem! A few days ago I updated 'Workshop Framework' from 1.2.0d to 2.0.1a (Seemed like a good idea at the time). It would appear that 2.01a corrupts something after using the workshop for the first time!! Will report on NexusMods!
U4: Just realised WF is your mod as well (Kinggath) so I guess I'm sort of in the right place anyways!
[(Little extra background - I decided to finally 'give it a go' (SS that is) last week (again, new game) but was consistently getting CTD's on trying to load almost any save after 'Concord' intro quest. Did get to Sanctuary stage once and managed to build some plots and 'desk' but a very short while after that, was unable to load ANY save without CTD (But realised that game was corrupt anyway, as I somehow ran with two scrap mods!). Originally thought the problem might be to do with 'BasementLiving' as problem (in this game) first appeared after building a basement and then trying to exit it!)].
 
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Having a similar CTD at Tenpines. Just re-installed & updated Fo4 (1.10.163.x)

- Unofficial Fo4 Patch, 3-in-1, Conq, nuka patch, minutmen/CoA/BoS/Gunners/Libertalia faction packs.
- No SS Add-on packs except ltc_LegalizedGrow as Add-ons have 'issues'.
- Also only using RoTC (non-complex) blueprints as again, notice other blueprint settlements have 'issues'.

Been troubleshooting this CTD for a couple days now on different starts, same result. When I go to Tenpines to 'scout' I get a CTD. On approach to Tenpines sometimes I get the Scout notification and other times I have to go up to the settlement wall to Discover the settlement on the map. Everytime after I either "scout or discover" (whichever the game decides I have to do...) I get a CTD.

At this point I'm suspicious of the 'scouting' script in Conq with something going on with Tenpines.
 
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Rolled back to those pre-testing saves with everything enabled again and did a recovery at tenpines. Afterwards spend some time there building new stuff, got some plots running, hung around. I crashed again and started getting the same CTD issue. Now that I was building things one at a time and waiting I could more accurately determine what was the last thing i did before the issue started appearing, which was after I powered some interior residential plots. Removing a power connection to a power conduit whose power radiators powered indoors residential plots seemed to stop the issue. Now they get their power from solar panels attached on the building (seems they radiate power too), I removed the power conduits, and Tenpines has yet to have an issue since.

Still confusing though, as other settlements without issues do have power conduits powering interior plots. I may be mistaking coincidental correlation for causation, or there are other less obvious conditions for the issue to arise.

Tried then going to zimonja, which now CTD'd instantly when I got close enough that it loaded. Had to scrap it remotely via console and then finish the job with the gavel. Unknown if this was because of the orginal issue and somethign was wrong with zimonja originally too, or if the recovery of tenpines somehow messed zimonja up (supply lines?). Regardless, I spent time building Zimonja up a bit and it was completely stable too.

I'll be taking it slowly with other settlements too to keep an eye out for if similar issues arise again and more easily identify what was the change that started them.

So that's propably one issue down, and the other one (about power-producing plots) I can honestly live with. I haven't even bothered testing for it in many, many work hours because this was far more pressing, and have been just powering my settlements with solar panels.

I appreciate all the help, even Phil's assumptions. I know far too well what it's like to work in tech support, and in hindsight "I got rid of" was far too strong an expression for "I temporarily disabled it to test possible conflicts and can roll back at any time". Cheers.
 
Further testing revealed continuing CTD's, no longer on save load but at random noticeably near Tenpines! After looking at what I was running the only thing that I noticed was a named settler at Tenpines and another (the vault one) appearing nearby! Now think (95% certain) that it was caused by "Settlers of the Commonwealth" [3DNPC_FO4.esp] (Part of Atomic Radio suite). As have had NO CTD's (now 14h 38m in) after rolling back before adding this mod and running without it!
Unfortunately my 'stable' suite of mods does not include SimSettlements but this will probably be my next test (again!).
 
SOTC is not an issue.

As stated above, uninstalling mid game kills the save. Fallrim can tell you what is causing issues and while sometimes I have beeb able to clean something, creeping problems become worse in time.

I run 400+ mods and I will only have 2 or 3 active scripts. If you have 10+, you have issues.

Honestly, you need to use fallrim and start cutting mods out. My mod list is years in the making and lots of mods I have loved got axed for stability.

I have said and still say... my stability has grown exponentially but simply getting rid of DEF_UI and all related mods for descriptions etc. When mods use scaleform, you get issues and crash.

No scrapping mods. No better settlers - I use an alternative.

I would look on nexus for Load Order by BriBait (I misspelled) . Follow that LO, look what he has tested and proven out as conflict free.

I use it generally speaking but have added my own choices.

And @RayBo Bake a save game will save you.

John
 
Ok, so I did NOT uninstall! SOTC was the last mod I added in before the crashing occurred and I was able to go back to a save BEFORE it was installed. With it crashing, without it - no crashing, I don't know what other proof you need? It could be a conflict with another mod but that does not exonerate SOTC in not contributing to the problem. Fallrim shows the save with SOTC as still completely clean so not sure what that proves?! These 'earlier' saves also included NO scrapping mod.
I have increased the mods one by one and tested for several hours after each one. Now running with 35 mods not including the 3 F4SE ones and the 3 that do not have an Esp or esm. Without, 'SOTC' and 'Better Settlers', so far I have had NO crashes and currently showing 23h on the save file. Also been running with Sim Settlers now for quite a few hours and although does now seem to be doing some weird things, Not crashes.
 
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