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Question Question about cities (and potential suggestion)

Irealys

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Hi. Very new Sim Settlement player here. I’m on Xbox one S so I’m limited in build. I decided to ask for info/help before I get too angry.

I have only this mod (3in1) with recommended mods (HUDFramework work, workshop framework etc) and all the addons I could get (junktown, both mega packs etc) and every single city plan I could find on xbox. Actually I also have place anywhere and true storm but that’s it. I also turned off most performance options in the holograph (obviously not build limit but things like clutter etc).

I’ve been trying to use ROTC but so far all plans look to be either very close or even sometimes over my build limit while in foundation form and the two times I’ve tried to upgrade to level 1 it went over it. So right now I’m disappointed but it looks like I can forget any city plan (although if anyone knows of plans I could use all the way to level 3 on Xbox I am ALL EARS!!!).

I guess my question is this: Is there anything to the city levels other than pre-building? Do I lose anything by never using plans? My impression was that visitors come to your city as it levels which would imply without a city level it won’t happen but I could be 100% wrong. I know there are other things in Conqueror that goes with city levels but I’m not a fan of the whole Vassal system, even as a good guy I’m still making these settlements slaves (although I’d love for some of the features to be implemented in the base mod, like an Armoury that would arm guards in a non-conquering settlement).

I have quite a few other small gripes with city plans. For starters, considering that we use blueprints to start these it’s weird that I have no idea what to expect from a city plan. How many residents at any levels? The types of plots? Should I also plan for a provisioner or did the plan also include the logistic station?

Add in the fact that other than building it all I have no idea what will be where, I may dislike the prebuilt plan (for me not using the prebuilt structures as much as possible sounds insane from an immersion standpoint), I might want to add plots but don’t know where it would be safe and probably other small issues I’m forgetting and I’m starting to feel like the whole ROTC portion might be a waste of space.

(obviously if the city levels do nothing then the next suggestion is pointless)
But... I had this idea that maybe something could be done to help people on Xbox use the city leveling without the issues caused by the plans. It would require a new type of plan that, in order to avoid confusion, I’ll name Checklists for now. Checklists would be basically the numerical target of the various city levels. Example: anything below level 1 requirements would be level 0, then with population X it rises to level 1 and so on. Then we could set up plots where we want them and build whatever else the way we want.

In an ideal world, each settlement would have its own checklists. Yes, plural. Not only should I not expect as many settlers in Sanctuary as I would in Hangman’s Alley but even then any settlement could have a lot of different ways to be built. I’m not sure how to explain other than a list of examples of how I see certain settlement types. Industrial city, commercial city, tourist trap... I mean city, basic outpost where trade routes converge, farms of various sizes, defensive outpost, etc. Every type of settlement could have its own upgrade path (ex: farm towns should only upgrade after population X and Food Output Y are reached, Industrial would be different requirements etc).

Again, maybe I’m losing nothing by not using city plans and I might just be better off not caring but I feel like I’m missing a part of it by not having this goal to reach to get my city to level up.

Thank you to anyone who bothered to read and an even bigger thank you to anyone who answers.
 
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@Irealys I'm a happy Xbox1S/SS user. I'm only selling laces, here, not the shoes.

Again, maybe I’m losing nothing by not using city plans and I might just be better off not caring but I feel like I’m missing a part of it by not having this goal to reach to get my city to level up.

I don't use RotC or city plans. City plans are cool, really cool. But doesn't fit my play style. I like building my own.

I'm not suggesting that you do or don't use RotC, but I encourage you to just make the game your own.

The greatest thing about SS is just how much you can customize and tune it to what you want. But we Xbox users have to also tune it and customize it till it works for us and our peculiar play thrus.

Figuring out just how to do this takes a lotof trial and error and being up to breaking something every now and then.

Every new start and playthru is better than the last in my experience.

Patience is what greases the machine.

If RotC is frustrating you, put it aside. There's still a bunch of other stuff to enjoy/figure out. You can come back it to it later if you want.

In the meantime just focus on building your own well functioning settlements. Establish your own
goals and go about it.

In an ideal world, each settlement would have its own checklists. Yes, plural. Not only should I not expect as many settlers in Sanctuary as I would in Hangman’s Alley but even then any settlement could have a lot of different ways to be built. I’m not sure how to explain other than a list of examples of how I see certain settlement types. Industrial city, commercial city, tourist trap... I mean city, basic outpost where trade routes converge, farms of various sizes, defensive outpost, etc. Every type of settlement could have its own upgrade path (ex: farm towns should only upgrade after population X and Food Output Y are reached, Industrial would be different requirements etc).

Making any of these on your own and doing so in a well managed way could be days and days of fun.

Is your own Farming Hub at level 2 or 3? You decide. But it doesn't matter as long as it works and is well managed: that's the pay off.


The key appeal for RoTC is that your settlers build it themselves. But what they are building is someone else's city plan. The joy is watching it happen and discovering what they've done. (I think that trying to manage too much what they are doing often gets in the way of this.)

I’ve been trying to use ROTC but so far all plans look to be either very close or even sometimes over my build limit while in foundation form and the two times I’ve tried to upgrade to level 1 it went over it. So right now I’m disappointed but it looks like I can forget any city plan (although if anyone knows of plans I could use all the way to level 3 on Xbox I am ALL EARS!!!).

If you do decide to use RotC. I'd recommend slow and steady at first. Start up a city plan and let it go. Let it go over build budget. Just don't have a bunch going at the same time, go one settlement at a time. Make getting that plan to level 3 your focus. Save routinely before upgrading. If it builds up too much and craps your box, roll back. Now you know how much your box can handle given your load out.


My impression was that visitors come to your city as it levels which would imply without a city level it won’t happen but I could be 100% wrong.

Visitors, if turned on, will show up in non RotC cities. Rec/Commercial plots will attract them. (I've turned off all visitors. I like to limit how much is going on in my settlements.)

There are other things from RotC you can use in your self built settlements:

Leaders: You can assign a leader to your own self built and reap their bonuses and suffer their flaws. In fact, the leader can be the leader and work a plot. The only thing you wouldn't benefit from is any leadership trait that effected city plan building.

Food/water donations: feed your settlement thru donations to the city planner's desk.

Armory Donations: Beef up your defense rating thru donations to the desk.

I have quite a few other small gripes with city plans. For starters, considering that we use blueprints to start these it’s weird that I have no idea what to expect from a city plan. How many residents at any levels? The types of plots?

If you want to plan and manage settlements, do it. But with city plans, sit back and let the settlers show you what they can do without your guidance. Will you be impressed by their efforts? Not knowing what they are up to is part of the fun.

Should I also plan for a provisioner or did the plan also include the logistic station?

You'll have to set this up yourself. Easiest thing is just to change the first Industrial plot that pops up into a Logistics Station.

Add in the fact that other than building it all I have no idea what will be where, I may dislike the prebuilt plan (for me not using the prebuilt structures as much as possible sounds insane from an immersion standpoint), I might want to add plots but don’t know where it would be safe and probably other small issues I’m forgetting and I’m starting to feel like the whole ROTC portion might be a waste of space.

It used to be, once upon older versions of SS, that if you wanted to change a plot into another kind, you had to scrap it and put down a new one. Now, you can convert change plots not just in kind but you can convert them from one kind to another.

This is great for RoTC. If you want a Rec plot where it put an Industrial Plot you can just convert it via the ASAM sensor. You can convert Industrials to Advanced Industrials. How changing what the plan imagines effects the city upgrade process, I don't know. But you could make that into its own minigame.

Also, if you did manage to get a city to level three, you could go and convert any and every plot into something else if you wanted. Manage/make what you want inside the the shell of the city plan.


It be nice I suppose if some industrious modder took an interest in making city plans built for the console. The thing is that most aren't interested in making a a plan for 10 settlers. Bigger and better, lush and more lush. I don't blame them. Pushing the limit is were the action is. Why sleep on a hard wood floor if you can sleep on a Persian rug?

I, however, want just enough and just enough is peculiar to my LO and my Xbox. A settlement is no good to me if I can't go into without crashing. I want to use and enjoy the settlements I build. 16 plots is a huge metropolis to me.

Now, if I was industrious and built a computer and learned how to mod and became a city builder, would I make plans for the Xbox? I'll lie to you and say yes.

But what would probably happen is I'd be a like a kid set free in a candy store. I'd feast on plenty and completely forget my Spartan upbringing.
 
Here is an idea, one that I have used, but it should work for XBox (steerage class- lolz I love that btw @bullyrook) users.
Start the settlement with a city plan to lay down all the foundations and then turn it off and put the plots in yourself!
You get all the great foundation stuff and it's a great way to get your own creative juices flowing - potential possibilities.
I use this when I have a plan for the Commonwealth and have ideas about what each linked settlement should have as it's role - mining town, oil town, etc. - A Commonwealth plan if you will.
I re-read your post and I do realize the load balancing a player has to do in your situation and pondering on this and my knowledge of the way SS develops out I think this would fit your play well.
With a city plan on full, I do mix city planned settlement building with my own but then again PC, so... But even in settlements where a city plan is off and I have either used or not used a city plan I get the random visitors - especially with certain plots types available. Put yourself in the wandering settler's point of view for a moment and think about why you would want to visit a particular settlement over another.
 
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First to Bullyrook. Thank you for your long answer. You took a lot of time and I respect this a lot.

I feel like I my explanation of my situation was not clear. I will have my own playthroughs, I will test and learn and see the awesome things this mod can give me.

But that’s the thing... I’d like to SEE them. From your (and the other) answer it looks like there isn’t a feature linked to town levels so I’ll forego plans for most of it... but... I’d still like to see one.

Oh and I would NEVER assume any modder would want to make these plans for me. This wasn’t aimed at them but at the designers themselves (again, since it looks like city levels don’t mean anything other than what to build, and unless it eventually becomes a thing, my idea of a checklist is pointless.

As for my other issues, I have no problem being surprised but I still don’t like the mechanic that the mayor (it is the framework used for this mod) doesn’t even know what direction this city is going or what they’ll get or miss down the line. Personally I don’t think it helps the gameplay. But again personal taste. Thanks again for your answer.

To Xeteco: Thank you for your answer. But I’m not even going to bother with the foundation level. It actually is surprisingly big on the limit. In a test I had 9 internal residences and 7 external plots + 2 internal agricultural and I was at maybe 10-15-20% of my build limit. Without clutter and all at level 1 but by that test, I think I’ll prefer to place everything myself to be minimalist with anything non-plot related.

For the rest of your message that’s my goal. I always love to have settlements that have their own personalities, look and feel. So I’ll choose the plans for each city based on styles (thankfully most add-ons fit well within themselves so it should not be an issue to do relatively blind). But yeah I’ll have my fair share of varied settlements (it also helps the limitations of the xbone) have different setups, clothing styles (just for that the Logitek station will be a huge time saver) and now that I know that visitors don’t require city plans, I’ll make my own tourist trap, thank you very much :-D

Again thank you for taking this time.
 
If you still want to try city plans, you might take a look at the Simple Settlements series (here). They are small city plans, designed for lower end computers and Xbox, typically with level 3 using 50% of the build limit. I haven't looked at the aesthetics, and haven't tried them myself though.
 
Hi Tinuvia. Thank you for your reply.

I have seen the pack you mention (I literally downloaded every plan I could find in the hopes of finding some that look like they might get to level 3. Maybe I tested his plans in the wrong settlements, maybe there is something wrong with my Xbox or maybe what he considers 50% of the build limit at level 3 isn’t an opinion my Xbox shares. In any case, the plans I tried from him all were about 50% or more (in some cases getting in the yellow warning territory) by level 1. So I opted to not fight it.

I kept one plan for Oberland station, it looked promising enough to give it a shot and hopefully I can get that one working.

That being said, after doing some testing, I realized that plots don’t take nearly as much space as I though, at least not the interior ones and level 1s. Even after turning every performance option back on (clutter, extra lights etc) my build limit is so low (about 15%) that I recalculated three times in a row. I have 17 plots. I understand that they will take more as they upgrade but clearly scrapping everything and building only plots (or mostly only plots) seems like the least frustrating way for me to play it. And I’m happy with that.

But thank you for taking the time to offer this advice but at this point, ROTC is nothing but leaders for me (unless Oberland miraculously actually end up working).
 
Just a note, one a plot is built with whatever plan you select or in the case you use random picks, if you dislike what got built there you can always access the sensor and select a different plan!
I do this frequently if a plot does not fit my aesthetic appeal for the area.
 
Hey thanks for the tip. Yeah this is one I figured out pretty quickly. Actually I think it might even have been from one of Kinggath’s tutorials. And since not all descriptions are equally descriptive, and since I decided to fight with the existing houses and doorways of Sanctuary, I learned to enable quick build (I think it’s more fun with realistic build times) and make sure I didn’t choose an interior that would be inaccessible. I’d do the same with style if it came to this.
 
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