Bug A Couple of Possible Incompatibilities

I spent a few hours this evening testing the production versions of Workshop Framework and Workshop Plus against my load order (attached). I played on an existing, 39 hour old save with 287 total .esm/.esp/.esl mods installed (counting these two) for approximately 3 hours. I did not do any settlement building, and only opened the workshop menu twice in Home Plate (however, it is modified by Aloot’s Home Plate [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15300]).

Here is what I found:

• Invisible Furniture’s invisible furniture markers become visible if you set Workshop Plus to unhide hidden layers on workshop exit.
• Using Workshop Framework in conjunction with one of the following three mods, (a) Uncapped Settlement Surplus [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12430], (b) More Attackers - Get Off My Buildzone [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27465], or (c) BS Defence [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20137], appears to have generated a massive number of unattached instances (537 in 3 hours). I did not uninstall any mods prior to this test. I have yet to determine which of the three is the culprit, but I’ll try to decompile and check them out tomorrow. Likely, MA-GOMB and BS Defence are the issues, since both modify the workshop scripts.

Hopefully that helps. I haven’t seen any other issues, but if I do, I'll add them to this thread as additional posts.

snarkywriter said:

I spent a few hours this evening testing the production versions of Workshop Framework and Workshop Plus against my load order (attached). I played on an existing, 39 hour old save with 287 total .esm/.esp/.esl mods installed (counting these two) for approximately 3 hours. I did not do any settlement building, and only opened the workshop menu twice in Home Plate (however, it is modified by Aloot’s Home Plate [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15300]).

Here is what I found:

• Invisible Furniture’s invisible furniture markers become visible if you set Workshop Plus to unhide hidden layers on workshop exit.
• Using Workshop Framework in conjunction with one of the following three mods, (a) Uncapped Settlement Surplus [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12430], (b) More Attackers - Get Off My Buildzone [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27465], or (c) BS Defence [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20137], appears to have generated a massive number of unattached instances (537 in 3 hours). I did not uninstall any mods prior to this test. I have yet to determine which of the three is the culprit, but I’ll try to decompile and check them out tomorrow. Likely, MA-GOMB and BS Defence are the issues, since both modify the workshop scripts.

Hopefully that helps. I haven’t seen any other issues, but if I do, I'll add them to this thread as additional posts.

Click to expand...

Well, I was just setting up a new game tonight. Had spent time today with it today on a corrupted save, haha "I broke all my Legendaries" bummer ;( so didn't bother checking it. I was just playing and having fun with it. But, was about to start a new save after reinstalling and cleaning everything. I have all of those mods installed. I am soooo happy you posted this! They will get disabled.

OOOOOOOOOOooooooo, I like your load Order list. hahaha, but too many guns and not enough honey - pot mods

Still, I do like all the Quad.esl mods!

BS Defense works fine.. that I use as default. LOL
The others... dunno.

snarkywriter said:

I spent a few hours this evening testing the production versions of Workshop Framework and Workshop Plus against my load order (attached). I played on an existing, 39 hour old save with 287 total .esm/.esp/.esl mods installed (counting these two) for approximately 3 hours. I did not do any settlement building, and only opened the workshop menu twice in Home Plate (however, it is modified by Aloot’s Home Plate [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15300]).

Here is what I found:

• Invisible Furniture’s invisible furniture markers become visible if you set Workshop Plus to unhide hidden layers on workshop exit.
• Using Workshop Framework in conjunction with one of the following three mods, (a) Uncapped Settlement Surplus [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12430], (b) More Attackers - Get Off My Buildzone [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27465], or (c) BS Defence [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20137], appears to have generated a massive number of unattached instances (537 in 3 hours). I did not uninstall any mods prior to this test. I have yet to determine which of the three is the culprit, but I’ll try to decompile and check them out tomorrow. Likely, MA-GOMB and BS Defence are the issues, since both modify the workshop scripts.

Hopefully that helps. I haven’t seen any other issues, but if I do, I'll add them to this thread as additional posts.

Click to expand...

I use USS and GTOMB with all extra Mods from it that are recommand on his page.Until now i don't have Problems with WF and them.With FO4edit i don't see any Conflict between them and as my Game is Clean i see even not 1 Unattached instance after installing WF.

GladiusVictorius said:

I use USS and GTOMB with all extra Mods from it that are recommand on his page.Until now i don't have Problems with WF and them.With FO4edit i don't see any Conflict between them and as my Game is Clean i see even not 1 Unattached instance after installing WF.

Click to expand...

How do they look in FallRim?

According to @kinggath in the live stream, Workshop Framework doesn't touch any Workshop attack scripts however anything/mod that tweaks the Workshop Object Script might have a conflict - so Uncapped Settlement Surplus is the likely culprit.

Also, I see your load order contains IDEK. If you are using the IDEK logistics locker (storage system) then it should be pulling out the the contents of all your connected Workshops everyday anyways so the need for Uncapped Settlement Surplus functionality may be not really be necessary. I stopped using USS and just rely on IDEK now. If you are not "pulling the content" out of individual Workshops then it will likely require some coding/patching on someones part to resolve things.

bludthurst said:

According to @kinggath in the live stream, Workshop Framework doesn't touch any Workshop attack scripts however anything/mod that tweaks the Workshop Object Script might have a conflict - so Uncapped Settlement Surplus is the likely culprit.

Click to expand...

Ah, I must have zoned out during that part of the stream. My apologies. Makes sense. I wasn't sure if there were any variables or things that those mods' scripts may rely on that were re-named, etc. I haven't yet done a deep dive into the source code for Workshop Framework to start doing the documentation (I'm still working on the Vanilla mechanics article), so I assumed that, given my brief perusal of the WF and vanilla scripts, BS Defence and More Attackers - Get Off My Buildzone at least interacted with the CheckForAttack function in WorkshopScript and the ResolveAttack function in WorkshopParentScript.

bludthurst said:

Also, I see your load order contains IDEK. If you are using the IDEK logistics locker (storage system) then it should be pulling out the the contents of all your connected Workshops everyday anyways so the need for Uncapped Settlement Surplus functionality may be not really be necessary. I stopped using USS and just rely on IDEK now. If you are not "pulling the content" out of individual Workshops then it will likely require some coding/patching on someones part to resolve things.

Click to expand...

That's fair. I purposefully haven't enabled that feature of Logistics Stations beyond having caps pulled into the Logistics Storage Container, since I do not use a workbench for the Logistics Storage Designator to ensure that nothing hinky happens since I have so many mods and so much that could go wrong. Also, that feature is disabled by default so there are probably at least some users who haven't activated it, so a patch or refactoring of Uncapped Settlement Surplus may be necessary. Hopefully @EyeDeck can confirm whether there could be an incompatibility or if I need to look elsewhere since both Uncapped Settlement Surplus and Logistics Stations are his mods. He doesn't directly modify any of the workshop scripts (all of his are custom), so I don't know myself. Looking at his source code, it looks like it should be fine. *shrug* Probably just some thing weird on my end.

USS will ultimately end up overproducing, because it's still using the hard coded values to determine how much it should produce to simulate their being no surplus cap.

Since WSFW introduces the possibility for other mods to alter those previous hard-coded values, the formula USS is using won't match up. It will take a little while before it's an issue.

The nice thing is that someone can make the equivalent of USS for Workshop Framework in a few minutes. They'd simply change a few global values in a new mod that depended on WSFW. So no real need for EyeDeck to make a patch, the mod using WSFW would be much simpler.

The same will eventually be said of BS Defence. It currently doesn't conflict directly, but will ultimately interfere with some of what WSFW is offering.

I think this will be a common thing, many clever mod authors have found workarounds for editing vanilla behavior - and now we don't have to. The workarounds will likely be the cause of many future issues that we can deal with as they start cropping up.

If anyone wants to take advantage of hotfiles and make WSFW equivalents of BS Defence and USS, let me know and I'll show you how quick they are to make.

Yeah, USS is borked now. WF guts the DailyUpdateProduceResources, DailyUpdateConsumeResources, and DailyUpdateSurplusResources functions, all three of which it relied on, so USS simply won't do anything if WF is installed. I think the "attack reducer" functionality probably still works--though I should note that that system was a huge hack in the first place since I had to make it work without editing scripts directly, which I achieved by doing evil things to the WorkshopRatingLastAttackDaysSince AV stored on the workbench. For that matter, really, the entire mod is a huge hack, since if Bethesda were sane and didn't hardcode all of their values, it would probably only take 10% as much code as it does.

I am debating how to handle this; what I will probably do is rewrite the OnPlayerLoadGame-activated maintenance script to check if Workshop Framework is currently activated, and if so it will shut down the "parallel" WorkshopScript system that USS uses by just shutting down the main quest, and will instead fire up a far lighter alternate "back-end" that uses Workshop Framework to achieve the same thing instead, using the same config holotape.

Gives me a good excuse to release 2.0 anyway, this time with .esl support, and maybe (finally) MCM if I get around to it.

I am happy for 3 things today!

1. IDEK came by and posted. “This is always a good thing”
2. Folks “snarky” said something about USS beforehand so I had disabled before starting a new game. Even better IDEK confirms that was a good idea before I decide to test it myself. “Another good thing”
3. When either IDEK or pra start throwing words around like MCM and .esl, I get as happy as a puppy dog who has no clue who is throwing the treats. I just run around licking things hoping for more. Hahaha for us dogs, “It is a good thing”

Yep, happy-happy-happy.

Oh, hahahaha almost forgot – even better, Tinuvia wants to try a mod I suggested “wow” what a good day.

I can’t wait for tonight, and fire up WF and Fly around naked and build something

Hahaha “no more jet packs folks” so maybe not what you-all are thinking.

Then – again? I am pretty weird…

RayBo said:

1. When either IDEK or pra start throwing words around like MCM and .esl, I get as happy as a puppy dog who has no clue who is throwing the treats. I just run around licking things hoping for more. Hahaha for us dogs, “It is a good thing”

Click to expand...

I just checked my Nexus page for USS and the issue report I created entitled "Enhancement: MCM support" is dated "25 September 2017, 1:04AM"--I have officially procrastinated about that for an entire year now. Ouch.

.esl support is stupidly easy though, I just ran my form ID compacting xEdit script on it and it was good to go.

Okay, I've mostly updated USS to to work with WSFW.

• USS will now auto-detect whether WSFW is installed, and if so it goes into a "lite" mode where all of its features are enabled by tweaking WSFW's globals, instead of using any of the active (and fairly heavy) scripts that the vanilla mode relies on.
• The vanilla mode should remain unchanged. I have not actually tested this, however.
• Starting with this version of the mod, it will now be distributed as an ESL-flagged .esp. Form IDs and such have been adjusted to support this.
• There's now a toggle to uncap the tribute chests from the Nuka World DLC, however this feature is completely untested as I have still not actually played this DLC. Though I try to avoid making edits to base scripts whenever possible, this means that USS now overrides DLC04:TributeChestScript since doing it any other way would be way too much effort, and the chance of another mod conflicting is negligible.
• A bunch of code has been cleaned up and refactored.

[Link]

If anyone wants to give it a go and let me know how it works (especially without WSFW installed, since the WSFW mode is very simple and I've tested it pretty thoroughly myself, whereas I haven't gotten around to testing the much more fragile vanilla/legacy mode in this version), I'd appreciate it. Assuming all goes well, I'll try to get a MCM menu made for it, and a proper release on the Nexus and Bethesda.net tomorrow.

EyeDeck said:

Okay, I've mostly updated USS to to work with WSFW.

• USS will now auto-detect whether WSFW is installed, and if so it goes into a "lite" mode where all of its features are enabled by tweaking WSFW's globals, instead of using any of the active (and fairly heavy) scripts that the vanilla mode relies on.
• The vanilla mode should remain unchanged. I have not actually tested this, however.
• Starting with this version of the mod, it will now be distributed as an ESL-flagged .esp. Form IDs and such have been adjusted to support this.
• There's now a toggle to uncap the tribute chests from the Nuka World DLC, however this feature is completely untested as I have still not actually played this DLC. Though I try to avoid making edits to base scripts whenever possible, this means that USS now overrides DLC04:TributeChestScript since doing it any other way would be way too much effort, and the chance of another mod conflicting is negligible.
• A bunch of code has been cleaned up and refactored.

[Link]

If anyone wants to give it a go and let me know how it works (especially without WSFW installed, since the WSFW mode is very simple and I've tested it pretty thoroughly myself, whereas I haven't gotten around to testing the much more fragile vanilla/legacy mode in this version), I'd appreciate it. Assuming all goes well, I'll try to get a MCM menu made for it, and a proper release on the Nexus and Bethesda.net tomorrow.

Click to expand...

I'm game! Just downloaded it.

Sorry, but WSFW is installed

EyeDeck said:

If anyone wants to give it a go and let me know how it works (especially without WSFW installed, since the WSFW mode is very simple and I've tested it pretty thoroughly myself, whereas I haven't gotten around to testing the much more fragile vanilla/legacy mode in this version), I'd appreciate it. Assuming all goes well, I'll try to get a MCM menu made for it, and a proper release on the Nexus and Bethesda.net tomorrow.

Click to expand...

Just to check, would moving over from the current .esp to the new .esp tagged as a .esl cause any issues on an existing save? I unfortunately won't be able to test tonight, but hopefully another brave soul can do so before tomorrow.

snarkywriter said:

Just to check, would moving over from the current .esp to the new .esp tagged as a .esl cause any issues on an existing save? I unfortunately won't be able to test tonight, but hopefully another brave soul can do so before tomorrow.

Click to expand...

It'll cause some script instances to become unbound in your save, though I made sure that the scripts are set up so that this won't actually harm anything.

If you want to be really safe about it, you can do this:

• Run the uninstall utility in the USS holotape
• Save
• Deactivate USS (including removing all of the scripts in the Data\Scripts\idek\uss folder in case you were previously using the unpacked version for whatever reason)
• Load and resave
• Load the new version

This technically leaves fewer remnants of the old version in your save, though I've never bothered going through all the trouble myself since it's mostly placebo.

I think I found a weird behavior regarding BS Defense.
Whenever I'm in workshop mode and I receive the notification that 'Settlement X is under attack', a second later the text for Food and Water turn red, even though they are higher than the number of settlers (the numbers don't change, just the color).
I can turn it green again if I pick up a crop or water pump and place it again.
Or it goes back to green by itself if another settlement gets under attack (new notification).
I need to test more to confirm.

Right-o, I have now updated USS with WSFW and MCM support:
[Nexus] [Direct Link]
The thing that took the most time was definitely the MCM menu, which was about 500 lines of JSON, and necessitated a near-complete rewrite of USS's old config system. The changes required to add "WSFW mode", as well as to switch between vanilla and WSFW (alternatively "legacy" and "lite" respectively), took a while too, though those weren't as bad.

As usual, I'm going to let USS stew on the Nexus for a few days before updating the Bethesda.net versions, especially since the magnitude of the changes I made this time mean that it's likely I'll need to put out a hotfix or two before this version is fully stable.

You do God's work, IDEK.

EyeDeck said:

Right-o, I have now updated USS with WSFW and MCM support:
[Nexus] [Direct Link]
The thing that took the most time was definitely the MCM menu, which was about 500 lines of JSON, and necessitated a near-complete rewrite of USS's old config system. The changes required to add "WSFW mode", as well as to switch between vanilla and WSFW (alternatively "legacy" and "lite" respectively), took a while too, though those weren't as bad.

As usual, I'm going to let USS stew on the Nexus for a few days before updating the Bethesda.net versions, especially since the magnitude of the changes I made this time mean that it's likely I'll need to put out a hotfix or two before this version is fully stable.

Click to expand...

But avert the People to make a Clean Install.I First make a normal switch between old and new version and the game become CTD in every Settlement.After i make a Clean Save by uninstall first the old version ingame with the Holo then clean the saves as there remain 4 unattached instance from the old version and the entry's in the Worshop script.Then i reload the game and the save make a clean Save go out and install the new Version after all Work perfect.

GladiusVictorius said:

But avert the People to make a Clean Install.I First make a normal switch between old and new version and the game become CTD in every Settlement.After i make a Clean Save by uninstall first the old version ingame with the Holo then clean the saves as there remain 4 unattached instance from the old version and the entry's in the Worshop script.Then i reload the game and the save make a clean Save go out and install the new Version after all Work perfect.

Click to expand...

What unattached instances should I be looking for if I wanted to do the same?